FC 2.0?? su27 vs f15???

[124SqZeljava]

We need to get someone from 51st or such to take Zeljava on in a fight. Or any experienced Flanker pilot, really. Then Zeljava can be shown that the most important component of either aircraft is the person holding the stick and pressing the trigger.

 

Zel, what you are doing is that you have a weird idea that somehow the Flanker is "just plain better" than the F-15, and then you take the fact that you can kill Flankers while flying the 15 through BFM as proof of anything. It isn't. It's proof of the fact that you were better at flying the 15 than the other guy was at flying a Flanker. ;)

 

Pick a fight with someone who really loves that bird and knows what strengths and weaknesses both aircraft have in BFM and you'll get vastly different results. Pilot > Aircraft

NP, i can do fight tonight, i will fly f15 and the other guy, let`s say A.S(he is one of the best) he will fly su27, ok with me;)

[EtherealN]

Go ahead and ask him then.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

monotwix, you imagination might not be good, but you're a bit behind in the reading.

 

If I got it right, GG said there are no advantages, not tactics. Of course, I might be wrong as well...

[124SqZeljava]

We need to get someone from 51st or such to take Zeljava on in a fight. Or any experienced Flanker pilot, really. Then Zeljava can be shown that the most important component of either aircraft is the person holding the stick and pressing the trigger.

 

Zel, what you are doing is that you have a weird idea that somehow the Flanker is "just plain better" than the F-15, and then you take the fact that you can kill Flankers while flying the 15 through BFM as proof of anything. It isn't. It's proof of the fact that you were better at flying the 15 than the other guy was at flying a Flanker. ;)

 

Pick a fight with someone who really loves that bird and knows what strengths and weaknesses both aircraft have in BFM and you'll get vastly different results. Pilot > Aircraft

In very 1st post i said that the Flanker is better in reality in BFM, but here f15 is better and that is unrealistic, and the fight of the other night show me that when im hit in su27 i don`t have any chance to win, but in f15 that chance is reall good, that`s all.

[GGTharos]

This is probably because you don't understand BFM ;)

The difference between these two fighters isn't that big. It's small enough that any mistake you make in the Su-27 will cause you to give up your advantage.

 

In very 1st post i said that the Flanker is better in reality in BFM, but here f15 is better and that is unrealistic, and the fight of the other night show me that when im hit in su27 i don`t have any chance to win, but in f15 that chance is reall good, that`s all.

[124SqZeljava]

This is probably because you don't understand BFM ;)

The difference between these two fighters isn't that big. It's small enough that any mistake you make in the Su-27 will cause you to give up your advantage.

Ohh really, so tell me this???

Where did you find DATA FOR HYDRO FAIL on su27 and f15 and there`s TURN RATES with this damages???

[GGTharos]

Concern yourself with performance without failures. Performance with failures really isn't very interesting - it's modeled as best effort and I doubt it will change. If you beat the other guy like that, all it means is that he doesn't know how to deal with a perfectly sustained turn. Besides, in FC2 you'll probably cause much more serious damage in gunzo anyway.

 

Ohh really, so tell me this???

Where did you find DATA FOR HYDRO FAIL on su27 and f15 and there`s TURN RATES with this damages???

[124SqZeljava]

Ok then, since most of you know that f15 can fly with 1 wing only, now that`s a plane, i wanna buy it!!! LMFAO...OVER AND OUT!

[Lucas_From_Hell]

OVER AND OUT!

 

Finally!

[EtherealN]

In very 1st post i said that the Flanker is better in reality in BFM, but here f15 is better and that is unrealistic, and the fight of the other night show me that when im hit in su27 i don`t have any chance to win, but in f15 that chance is reall good, that`s all.

 

You seem to have misunderstood what I said in the post you replied to.

 

You think the Flanker is just plain better than the F-15 at BFM.

It is not.

It's better at some things.

Worse at other things.

Pilot makes the difference.

Both in real life and in LO:FC.

 

And I think just about every single Flanker afficionado on this forum will tell you that your statement "su27 i don`t have any chance to win" is simply plain wrong. Even I, as a ground-pounder, have managed decently with the Flanker against F-15's back in the days. If you find that you can't defeat an F-15 in WVR engagements you are simply not handling the Flanker right. Don't fight vertical with an Eagle. Maintain your speeds within your airplane's most effective range - force the Eagle to work where you are good, and definitely don't let him decide how the engagement is to pan out.

Edited February 9, 2010 by EtherealN

[AirCavMoby]

=124Sq=Zeljava

Why is it that every time some has a problem with something they blame America? We did make this $%^^$% simulator.

 

I fail to see why America was mentioned at all. Its a Russian simulator.

Edited February 9, 2010 by AirCavMoby

[Boberro]

Ok then, since most of you know that f15 can fly with 1 wing only, now that`s a plane, i wanna buy it!!! LMFAO...OVER AND OUT!

 

 

With all respect to you as human when I read that and previous few comments I can't say anything than do:

 

[Frostie]

Kind of reminds me of this thread. :D

[Vecko]

I don't think that so many peoples understand what Zeljava is trying to say in his first post.Generaly opinion for lockon is that F-15 have little bit more arcade flight model in compare with flanker's flight model .

I remember the time when i was still learning how to fly and safely land in mig and flanker, it was wery frustrating.:) In time when i could not performe not an single good landing in russian's planes in lomac i decide to try the same with F-15. In my very first meeting with eagle i manage to performe soft landing in some little village on short road?! Yes, F-15 have "fly by wire" system but can that system make noob to land in souch extreme condittions ? I don't think soo...

And what if this thread was about frogfoot vs A-10 dogfight? On one side we have GREAT advanced flight model and on other side , i don't know, arcade flight model maybe???Will you still call Zeljava dogfighter with not enough skill?How much skill you need to enter in close range fight in su-25 and how much in A-10(in lomac)?.

 

P.S.

I'm reading this thread and i'm very shure now, some pilots playin LockOn to enjoy in flying but some live only for kill, kill and nothing more...That is very sad...(very nice signature Pilotasso).

 

Sry for my creapy englysh but i think you got the point.:) S!

[104th_Crunch]

F-15s getting too much attention, eh? :music_whistling:What about the MiG-29 supercruise ability at mil power at med altitudes? poke poke Now, just stirring the pot, no need to get upset :devil_2:

[Pyroflash]

The F-15C is no easier to fly compared to any of the Russian planes. It trims itself to maintain yaw, pitch and roll rates in straight and level flight, that's all. When I use Russian planes, I just trim it myself. It really isn't that big of a deal. The flight models in the Su-27 & MiG-29 aren't any better than the flight model the F-15C uses. The only AFM in FC right now is the Su-25T, and that's only because it was designed as an addon for the original LOMAC. In fact, the DCS: A-10C module will be coming out sometime in the near future, so if you can wait until then, you will have your advanced A-10C model you have been whining about not having. More advanced than the Su-25T in FC even. Should make you more than happy. I know I will be excited :).

[EtherealN]

Vecko, the difference between the SFM and AFM, as far as I understand it, is one of detail. It's not one being scripted and the other dynamic. So the SFM is, well, "simple". But do note that both the F-15 and the Flanker use the SFM - only the 25's have the "AFM". Whatever disadvantages might be caused by the 15's SFM, it affects the Flanker too.

 

My own experience when I first tried LO back when the first previews were done by Ubi was that the Flanker was the easy one. I think in both our cases the impression of difference is just a spook that later gets enhanced by Confirmation Bias.

 

And it's not about Zeljava being a "dogfighter with not enough skill", though I personally suspect that he does have a lot of training left to do in the BFM area. (Not as much as I do, though, whenever you make me try to dogfight in a supersonic plane I just get lost. :P ) And this is based simply on the fact that he is saying that the Flanker, in LO, doesn't stand a chanse against the 15. That's just not true. The 15 is a better plane, yes, but the difference is close enough that a skilled pilot will be able to win a gunzo dogfight. It's all about using your plane's strengths while forcing the opponent to fly in his weak envelopes - and that's been a fundamental fact of dogfighting since 1916 when the division of the energy and angles fighter first started to show itself, with even more nuances between specific matchups.

 

As far as the Flanker vs 15, in real life and in LO, it's my understanding that a Flanker that lets itself get dragged into vertical maneuvers will simply die. That's where the 15 has the edge. Force the 15 to stay horizontal, and manage your airspeed properly, and you'll be well set, though. But remember - I'm not the expert on jets.

[124SqZeljava]

F-15s getting too much attention, eh? :music_whistling:What about the MiG-29 supercruise ability at mil power at med altitudes? poke poke Now, just stirring the pot, no need to get upset :devil_2:

Make the thread!!, i read from Yoda that he will be very strong in gunso fight`s what he really deserve;)

 

@ =SE=Vecko S!

[124SqZeljava]

=124Sq=Zeljava

Why is it that every time some has a problem with something they blame America? We did make this $%^^$% simulator.

 

I fail to see why America was mentioned at all. Its a Russian simulator.

Mate i don`t blame america, i just said that those who made this game, america and there market place was in big plan, that`s all, marketing manager thinking:thumbup:

[EtherealN]

Actually, Zeljava, America is a relatively small market for products like this. That's why Ubisoft markets stuff like HAWX and doesn't want to touch things like Falcon or DCS. There is no money in it for those big players in the west.

 

There is a reason why sims today are almost always developed in Russia - Russia and the CIS countries and former eastern bloc loves aircraft and wants them simulated, not instant-gratification arcade shooters like HAWX which is the "big stuff" getting listed as "simulator" in the west. If there was such a pro-US bias, why didn't ED implement the Su-27's radar modes properly (and thereby make it a lot harder to use)? That would have given the 15 an even bigger edge in BVR...

[124SqZeljava]

Well if that is reality, i don`t have nothing against for that radar. Let the f15 be stronger in BVR, but in gunso, with no hydro, no electronics i still menage to beat my oponent, and we all know what that damage means on f15, how in the **** he can turn, and fly by wire is made from water, lol, every noob need to beat me with that kind of damage.

[GGTharos]

Get this straight, YOUR OPPONENT SUCKS.

 

All blown out hydraulics does in LOFC is limit you to a sustained g for a given airspeed - the less airspeed you have, the less maneuverability you have. If your opponent can't cope with this, he sucks.

 

Well if that is reality, i don`t have nothing against for that radar. Let the f15 be stronger in BVR, but in gunso, with no hydro, no electronics i still menage to beat my oponent, and we all know what that damage means on f15, how in the **** he can turn, and fly by wire is made from water, lol, every noob need to beat me with that kind of damage.

[124SqZeljava]

Get this straight, YOUR OPPONENT SUCKS.

 

All blown out hydraulics does in LOFC is limit you to a sustained g for a given airspeed - the less airspeed you have, the less maneuverability you have. If your opponent can't cope with this, he sucks.

Hehe, he is my friend but new in gunso, but what is with electronics and flyby wire sistem, logic says to me that he can not fly that good, i didn`t have nothing on my HUD, light show in my pit, that`s the reason im saying all this, for develpers, to have that in mind if it`s possible, nothing more, cheers.

[GGTharos]

What do you expect from a non-DCS plane? They all have simple behaviour models, including for damage. It's not getting fixed. It's the same for all SFM planes, so just get over it already. It isn't going to get changed; there's no point in doing this, it's a waste of time compared to spending time to create DCS planes.

 

Stick to undamaged aircraft performance, and then we are talking about something.

 

Hehe, he is my friend but new in gunso, but what is with electronics and flyby wire sistem, logic says to me that he can not fly that good, i didn`t have nothing on my HUD, light show in my pit, that`s the reason im saying all this, for develpers, to have that in mind if it`s possible, nothing more, cheers.

Edited February 9, 2010 by GGTharos

[Vecko]

Aha i see... But is there any chance that SFM in F-15 is just liiiiiittle bit "more" SFM in compare with SFM in mig and flanker?:smilewink: