Playing with dot range/settings to spot air/ground units

[muamshai]

Ok, this might be very odd for you but I find it very difficult to spot ground units/air units in full settings sever (no f6, f7 or externals). Is it possible to play or tweak dot settings so that I will be able to spot a bandit or ground vehicle from a sufficient distance?

[Jg2001_Rasputin]

You won´t spot a camouflaged enemy so easy in real life. Thats why all those fancy Optical systems are for. ;)

 

Imo it shouldn´t be too easy to spot the enemy.

[Breakshot]

Ok, this might be very odd for you but I find it very difficult to spot ground units/air units in full settings sever (no f6, f7 or externals). Is it possible to play or tweak dot settings so that I will be able to spot a bandit or ground vehicle from a sufficient distance?

 

The simple answer is NO! And as stated above, why would you want an unrealistic spotting range? That was the story in FC1 which led to ridiculous and completely unrealistic "Dot hunting" style of flying for both A2G and A2A alike...

 

FC2 however has taken a realistic approach in this sense, which is great IMO, and i hope it stays that way! :)

 

But regardless, even if you wanted to tweak around, its not possible in FC2 AFAIK as some of the key parameters in "graphics.cfg" file that used to affect this are now hardcodded into the sim... For example, "ObjectFogMultiplier" is no longer there, which used to be one of the main culprits for "dot hacks"...

 

In other words, all objects should blend into the fog at range designed by ED now... :thumbup:

 

Besides, do you think you could spot a camouflaged tank from more than 3-4km? I think not! Thats why many Anti-Tank platforms have FLIR systems or A2G radar for doing the "spotting" work for you...

 

All this in mind, it kinda gives u an idea how hard it is flying a vanilla Su-25 now and in RL... Just look at real Su-25 videos from recent Georgia war and compare... You'll note how bad the SA and targeting was on some of those attack runs... Some of them were more like "spray and pray" dives than anything...

[muamshai]

Ok, it seems that I have been corrupted by FC1 :D

 

I have been using Su-25 and it is really hard to spot anything on ground unless I see a smoking trail of a MANPAD heading towards my general direction.

[RvEYoda]

But regardless, even if you wanted to tweak around, its not possible in FC2 AFAIK as some of the key parameters in "graphics.cfg" file that used to affect this are now hardcodded into the sim... For example, "ObjectFogMultiplier" is no longer there, which used to be one of the main culprits for "dot hacks"...

 

I never noticed this change, Let's say woho :). Now we can fly bvr!

[Scudslaker]

i think FC2.0 is much more realistic in this point. it s hard to spot the enemy visually allthough he is close to you.

 

yesterday i had problems to spot a tanker. he was up in the sun and the scratches from my cockpit have hidden him, too

 

i hope there is no tweak possibilite. cause, for me it makes more sense to deal with real constitutions and earning some more skills by avoiding detection by enemy forces..

[EtherealN]

Just to reinforce the point of how hard it actually is to spot other aircraft - I've had times where I have been in cirquit some 10-15km from the local airport and heard the approach traffic for an airliner and been constantly perplexed about where the heck the aircraft was, even though I heard all updated between ATC and and the plane, only to be taken by shock as the airliner reports leaving the runway.

 

Spotting other aircraft is extremely hard even if you know the rough direction to look. So if you want to make it easier - just use labels. If we ever get DCS:LightningII that'll be realistic anyhow. :P

[MBot]

I really have a hard time spotting air targets. The major problem I see here is Field Of View. I usually fly around with about 90° FOV, which really makes it hard to spot anything. Reducing the FOV makes it easier, but it is often impractical for air searches and to keep up SA in a fight. Instead of the labels workaround, a built in system that increases 3d model size of aircraft beyond a certain distance, depending on player FOV, would actually be pretty sweet. Player FOV matches average FOV of your monitor = 100% object size; player FOV lower, then 100+X% object size etc. Obviously such a system would have to be very precisely tunded. Some more thought of simulating human vision on the computer screen might be a good idea for the future.

 

For ground targets it is actually a lot easier (perhaps that is why I am mostly a ground pounder). The 2d geometry of the battlespace and the slower pace of combat makes it a lot easier to longer switch to low FOVs to make extensive ground searches.

[ericinexile]

There is something more important to me than realistic visibility, and that is visibility that matches Black Shark. At the moment in Black Shark, I can see most units from about 9-11 km. But with the FC 2 Su-25T, units don't start drawing until about 6 km. That's going to make online coordination difficult. (BTW, graphics settings for both are identical--I even matched the graphics.cfg for comparison)

[Jg2001_Rasputin]

A little picture riddle

[Renato71]

Yeah, I've noticed huge advantages right away. In Fc1 I was not able to survive in a2a, averaging with about 3 deaths per 1 kill. Now I can make 6-8 kills per one death! In few of my first MP flights I scored 4 and returned to base without any problems, per each session. I even manage to get those low flying guys and survive the encounter, which was never possible (for me) before :)

It is clear to me that I'm not all that visible to other players any more.

 

There is something more important to me than realistic visibility, and that is visibility that matches Black Shark. At the moment in Black Shark, I can see most units from about 9-11 km. But with the FC 2 Su-25T, units don't start drawing until about 6 km. That's going to make online coordination difficult. (BTW, graphics settings for both are identical--I even matched the graphics.cfg for comparison)

 

Thats very interesting. Shouldn't it be other way around? Cos air is much cleaner up there, then way down, kicking your own dust and so on?

What about graphical settings for Shkval? I haven't played much with that yet....

[Lulac]

Well Ok, I don't have anything against visibility of ground units...camouflage, dimensions, ect. Like in real life it's hard to spot a hidden target... But targets like large bridges or buildings, in my case became visible until 4 km distance from them. I think that's too short ! ! ! I use medium settings in Visib. Range and AS recommendation for graphic settings ("FC 2.0 FPS Tweaks/MODs")

Edited April 7, 2010 by Lulac

[Jg2001_Rasputin]

This picture was taken with the target air line 15nm ~ 28km away. It is barley, but visible. Im also using medium settings in visible range.

 

[ATTACH]37772[/ATTACH]

 

.. But targets like large bridges or buildings, in my case became visible until 4 km distance from them

I agree especially hence they are vital for navigation as landmarks Edited April 7, 2010 by Jg2001_Rasputin

[Lulac]

Hello Rasputin,

 

You use Su-25t, with Shkval. But Su-25 don't have any targeting system like that one. Only pilot visual from cockpit ! ! ! :pilotfly:

So until You reach about 4 km from target like bridge, it's practical invisible. . .

Edited April 7, 2010 by Lulac

[ericinexile]

A little picture riddle

 

Thanks for the picture Rasputin. I don't think anyone has ever been nice enough to actually draw for me since I was 4yo. Surprising as it may be to you I do understand angular distance and was comparing the two games at equivilant altitudes.

[ericinexile]

Ok...did another test. I made a quick mission in BS with T-80s placed 12 km from my helo. Tanks were just visible with full zoom. Placed same mission in FC 2 and added my Su-25T at the same altitude as the helo but 15 km out from the tanks. On several passes I never saw the tanks until I was within 2km. But... Once I knew exactly where to look I COULD see the tanks from 12 km as well with the game paused. So, Rasputin, there is some truth to your art. It isn't the angular distance so much as the ability in the Ka50 to autohover, sip your coffee, and really look with full zoom.

[Jg2001_Rasputin]

So we actually have what we want? The Black Shark doing reconnaisance and telling enemy location to the Frogs while itself stays hidden or behind cover. Sounds like fun for either party. Imagine tellling your buddy over the comms that the enemy is behind the river, left from the village and right in front of the treeline and 30 seconds later you see the enemy you just desribed blow up :pilotfly:

[3Sqn_TomAce]

I had one target flying away from me at 9mile could see him fine had the same type AC flying away from me in the same direction at 4-5 mile could not see him at all (could lock both in eos to chk distance). though I don't want to see extreme visual distances of FC1 I do think FC2.0 needs some work in this area.