FC2.0 Gun

[RvEYoda]

@Yoda:

you wanna argue, that i havent told you in first instance that THRUST is to much..you aksed me: "explain?"...i said..i cant ..i dont know what exactly is wrong (im not the coder) ..but i told you straight forward that thrust is to much in certain regimes. I couldnt express myself in ways which you understand....you undestand numbers..i take the jet ..and tell you straight forward whats messed up.... i fly ...you build!

 

your straight answer was: " probably you are not used to that kind of thrust, no sim has it so right" .. it still rings in my ears, cuz that was the moment i kept silent with a smile. What we tested was the Gs under specific mach speed...i read the values ..you flew them in same time.....this is totally differnt !!!

 

 

This is wht you told me to do, and you can talk to Fusion about that if you want. It has

nothing to do with GG. If you are tester for some product and you say "something is wrong,

I can feel it", then they won't change anything. I cannot go in somewhere and say

"something is wrong". Well tough luck the program is 1 million code lines long and we cannot

scan every letter for it. In fact the testers dont even have access to the code, only the devs do.

 

It's like you build a billion dollar cruise ship "something is wrong"..oh....what is it? Too much

space too look through. Must be more specific.

 

Trust is not wrong AS. Drag in certain regiemes were wrong.

 

 

then before that, we told you the we tested the flaps...and first thing you did was..."oh i have to post that in beta-forums" after testing it for yourself.

 

Because you were specific "this is wrong", it was possible to test, and verify a bug,

which is now to be fixed.

Edited April 12, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[A.S]

Dude....YOU dont know how yo-yo designed the things in specific...HOW shall i present you then a dissertation on failures in flightpyhsics-simulations???? hah?

 

All i said...here is something wrong...you want proof? ...either you trust me, or you convince yourself....i wont be able to give you proof on paper...im not the guy who made it....and furthermore..im not a tester...YOU are !

[Panzertard]

The language and tone in this thread is not what we need to see.

Please, everybody - step away and cool off - I think this is in the best interest for everyone.

[RvEYoda]

Dude....YOU dont know how yo-yo designed the things in specific...HOW shall i present you then a dissertation on failures in flightpyhsics-simulations???? hah?

 

You should write "Flight model performance of aircraft X is too high in regiemes ... kts to ...

kts, to reproduce fly ... kts and make a sustained turn." One sentence, easy to test, very

easy to fix.

 

 

All i said...here is something wrong...you want proof? ...either you trust me, or you convince yourself....i wont be able to give you proof on paper...im not the guy who made it....and furthermore..im not a tester...YOU are !

 

You cannot solve a problem if you don't know where it is.

For example :

 

1. Something seems fishy

2. Find where the problem is or what conditions can cause it to be reproduced

3. Solve it

 

If you cannot find "2" you can _never_ solve "3" properly. I test as much as is reasonably possible

without killing myself. I've spent several hours daily on this project tryin to iron out as many issues

as I possible could find and improve on.

Edited April 12, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[EtherealN]

Guys, please, take it to PM. We have now diverted from how to modify the guns slightly to who was right about what in thrust and drag. This thread is now in Cuba. So please let the thread return to topic or I might become sad in my eye.

[Frazer]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people :P

Yea people should keep thinking that....

 

Anyway, disregard the OT. I just wanted people to go easy on eachother :music_whistling:

[RvEFuSiOn]

See the bottom line is this,

We saw something wrong with jet/s, and the problem is we don't know how the game is coded, all we can do is fly it and test it and give you feedback on it. My question is how do we tell you exactly what is wrong, when (A) we don't have access to the code, (B) we don't know how its been coded, in what regimes of flight jet/s are supposed to behave. So there is no way we can express in code terms or in exact flight numbers terms what is wrong, and you shouldn't have to ask, because it is pointless to give you readings when we don't know how the engine is built from ground up. If we feel something is wrong, we mention it to you beta testers in the best way we can express it. If you cannot understand it, whos problem is that? It is your job to try to relay what we mentioned to the Dev's since you don't have the code either.

Yes there are lots of lines of code, but there seems to be a disconnect between the beta testers and the developers, because in simple language terms, simple things cannot be explained... Furthermore if the Dev's are not listening to you then forget it and tell us that, it would all save us a lot of trouble.

 

Peace

Edited April 12, 2010 by =RvE=FuSiOn

[Pilotasso]

Hey guys, I saw this thread and took advantage of the presence of my brother to ask him (F-16).

 

He said it was difficult to answer if the gun in lockon was realistic or not but heres what he offered to me:

 

"well, I have never actually fired the gun in AA but in training we are required to achieve a certain number of HUD footage frames on target close enough to the dot on the piper to validate a kill but it doesn't need to be exact. Snap shots may or not count in the exercises, we play with estimated odds differently each time if need to be.

But it does have dispersion we take in account. At one time a fellow pilot in the squad fired at a towed target, instead of hitting it where the piper was, he cut the cable instead! Its really hard to hit a can 1m long,specially if the radar as a slight calibration deviation, some managed to hit it directly, I didn't manage to hit one so far.

The barrels are convergent so that in theory their axes meet at some 3000-4000 feet away, but the inner stripes makes each bullet change a some mili arcs for every thousand feet.

A single bullet can explode an engine effectively destroying the enemy fighter or several of them can just bounce off at shallow angles causing insufficient damage. We also use high drag and low drag bullets each with different ranges and dispersion values"

 

On a side note I have an old book that says the M61 vulcan was designed to hit a mig-21 4 times if it passes in front of its sight at 900km/h and destroy it.

 

this is not entrily conclusive but heres my contribution. :D

Edited April 12, 2010 by Pilotasso

[A.S]

Thx you very much for asking him Pilot.....fine read ! :thumbup:

[Frazer]

I actually found the guns in FC1.12 quite ineffective. I had a lot of moments like "geeeez I'm hitting you 10 times, DIE!" (even I am evil sometimes :D).

Now, I haven't tried guns in FC2 yet, though reports of the guns being more effective isn't a bad thing IMO.

[RvEFuSiOn]

Now i maybe completely wrong, but it seems that in the lockon series the gravity modeling just feels off, you don't feel the effect of gravity pulling your jet down that much, and i think this is where most of the problems stem from. Any ideas??

[Pilotasso]

Also planes only wobble in the pitch axis, even FBW aircraft wobble in several axes at slow speeds.

[A.S]

you gotta looove punishing yourself to greedy on the stick above 15000feet, or if you screw up your angle of attack....or if you just "blub" gravity olee drop below the other guy....or if you struggle in scissors vs gravity and the bandit in AF :D ...and guns...well you can hit so many things and the bad boy is sometimes still able to fight back....till you really hit him well or something very crucial in right ways... krr krrr...idle detend...args....uff.....spool the engines back in..aaaahhhhh

Edited April 12, 2010 by A.S

[GGTharos]

You mean you're having issues with God's G?

 

Now i maybe completely wrong, but it seems that in the lockon series the gravity modeling just feels off, you don't feel the effect of gravity pulling your jet down that much, and i think this is where most of the problems stem from. Any ideas??

[MoGas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXvGpBdZTA and this is not a M61.

[Pilotasso]

This ones better but I have to say french guns are single straight barrels with far less rate of fire.

 

 

EDIT: damn this ones incredible...

 

Edited April 12, 2010 by Pilotasso

[MoGas]

ADEN's 30mm 1.200 - 1.700 per min.

 

@Pilotasso, yes youre second vid is good ;)

Edited April 12, 2010 by MoGas

[RvEFuSiOn]

You mean you're having issues with God's G?

 

Yes

[GGTharos]

Ok ... I can forward the question to someone who can look into it closer.

 

Here's what I need:

 

1) What maneuver you were trying to execute exactly.

2) What happened

3) What you think should have happened

 

 

For 1) you can also provide a track to demonstrate which would be more helpful since it will be easy to see what you are doing. -Just- a track of you doing whatvever feels off ... no entire battles etc please.

 

Yes

[Vekkinho]

I actually found the guns in FC1.12 quite ineffective. I had a lot of moments like "geeeez I'm hitting you 10 times, DIE!" (even I am evil sometimes :D).

 

I think the same. Fighting a F-15C with Su-27 (or MiG) in FC1.12 was silly. I spent 3 cans of ammo with pipper aligned dead on just to make it's engine smoke...F-15C seemed armoured...or guns seemed highly ineffective!

 

I like the way my Gsh-30 behaves, lobbing HE baseballs in FC2.0!

 

Guns are great now, don't spoil the fun!

[RvEFuSiOn]

check pm GG ive done a track to demonstrate what im talking about with a short explanation

[GGTharos]

Cool, I will be checking it out soon - thanks.

[Pilotasso]

You must share with us :D

[71st_Mastiff]

GG, just to make one thing clear here for once and forever.

 

Are you are real pilot with combat expirience? NO! you are not!

Am i ? no im not either !

In respect.

 

So then why are you spewing? Nonsense! Obviously you don't know either so therefore this thread should be closed. :thumbup: As my grandad would say "if you don't know Sh$% don't talk Sh45!"

[3Sqn_TomAce]

My main point of starting this thread was that the dispersal seems to great at short distances, these videos provided show good piper on target for the kill that we can easily reproduce in FC2.0 with the piper slightly off target. Therefore making kills in my opinion a little too easy especially in those oblique high G manoeuvres.

 

Unfortunately not many military pilots can answer this as they'd need either combat guns experience or have shot down a drone with the gun during training, so the rest of us can only speculate.

 

Ether has already answered my question so this thread is done unless someone with real world exp. can advise us more.

Edited April 12, 2010 by 3Sqn_TomAce