radar recognize ka-50

[wolf_288]

Hi

It´s possible recognize Ka-50 on the A-10 or F-16 radar in a multiplayer session???:pilotfly:

[EtherealN]

F-16? I assume you mean F-15?

 

What do you mean by recognize? Get a contact or get an ID on the scope? The A-10 would not be able to do that since it does not have a radar...

[Nate--IRL--]

Yes. But it is difficult to find on radar. BTW A-10 doesn't have a radar and the F-16 isn't flyable.

 

Nate

[wolf_288]

ok I mean ID on the scope in any aircraft who have radar and in multiplayer session

[Scudslaker]

yes, sure it has a radar signature you can detect by those planes, Su 27-33, Mig 29 and with the F15.

 

But it s really hard to find the contacts as the fly low and not as fast as you!)

 

tricky and hard to lock on, alligators

[Nate--IRL--]

Oh wait, I think there is a mistranslation here. The Ka-50 can not detect when a radar is looking at it. The Ka-50 has no Radar Warning Reciever, you receive no warning.

 

If you stay under 130km/hr and really low, the radars can't see you easily.

 

If a F-15 has you locked up, the only way they can tell you are a helicopter is by how slow you are flying.

 

Nate

[Cueball]

LOL! The Ka-50 will know it has been locked up when the missile hits it. This happened to me on a mission I made. Didn't pay attention and flew straight into a SAM's kill range. I knew it when I was flying along thought I had time to do something on my iPod when out of nowhere. BANG and every alarm in it was going off. I was just of the surface of the water too. Made a nice smooth water landing before I could realize totally what had happened just as missile number two slammed me then it was game over. The sad part is I made the mission and I knew it was there.

[diveplane]

yes, sure it has a radar signature you can detect by those planes, Su 27-33, Mig 29 and with the F15.

 

But it s really hard to find the contacts as the fly low and not as fast as you!)

 

tricky and hard to lock on, alligators

 

one of the main tatics used by heli combat pilots is to fly low as possible use ground clutter to your advantage. still at close ranges if a fighter pilot spots you though, your still in very much big trouble in the ka50, no close range air defence or rwr onboard .

see many people online, flying the ka50 ingame making the mistake of flying high alts like a jet, your just asking to get knocked down with ease this way.

 

balls of steel to fly the blackshark ka50 into a combat zone if you ask me.

 

 

btw alligator is the nato codename for the twin seater ka52 not the ka50,

 

ka50 is known for 2 NATO names as werewolf or blackshark , personally i like the werewolf name hehe.

Edited June 15, 2010 by diveplane

[diveplane]

LOL! The Ka-50 will know it has been locked up when the missile hits it. This happened to me on a mission I made. Didn't pay attention and flew straight into a SAM's kill range. I knew it when I was flying along thought I had time to do something on my iPod when out of nowhere. BANG and every alarm in it was going off. I was just of the surface of the water too. Made a nice smooth water landing before I could realize totally what had happened just as missile number two slammed me then it was game over. The sad part is I made the mission and I knew it was there.

 

KA50 can only detect laser range finding line of sight on it = lased, even at that its a fairly primitive

onboard unit , any other weapon aimed and fired at you , your blind and deaf. = infra red or radar guided ,

 

if its a frontal lockup from a ir or radar guided weapon, the ka50 pilot might stand a chance and see the launch though =plume from ground or air, and take evasive actions and deploys chaff flare and then quickly banks into low cover.

 

ka50=onboard unit LWI laser warning indicator L-140 Otklik

Edited June 15, 2010 by diveplane

[Frederf]

This thread has completely missed the original question. He asked "When looking at a radar return in a fighter how can you tell that that radar return is a Ka-50?"

[diveplane]

This thread has completely missed the original question. He asked "When looking at a radar return in a fighter how can you tell that that radar return is a Ka-50?"

 

someone already answered it yes

[Nate--IRL--]

This thread has completely missed the original question. He asked "When looking at a radar return in a fighter how can you tell that that radar return is a Ka-50?"

 

If a F-15 has you locked up, the only way they can tell you are a helicopter is by how slow you are flying.

 

 

Nate

[159th_Falcon]

If a F-15 has you locked up, the only way they can tell you are a helicopter is by how slow you are flying.

 

Nate

On a side note, Some Squad mate's and me have flown in formation whit an KA50.

So speed doesn't say everything, especially around the 250~350 kmh region.

 

(i was flying a fully loaded 25T others where flying 33's)

[AlphaOneSix]

btw alligator is the nato codename for the twin seater ka52 not the ka50,

ka50 is known for 2 NATO names as werewolf or blackshark , personally i like the werewolf name hehe.

 

I know I'm being nitpicky, so I apologize for that in advance. There is only one NATO code name for the Ka-50 and Ka-52. The Ka-50 is the Hokum and the Ka-52 is the Hokum-B. Alligator, Werewolf, and Black Shark are all Russian names (and all much better than the NATO names, in my opinion).

[RIPTIDE]

Nate

One correction... along with speed and other signs you will get "KA50" when locked onto a shark, with a '15 just as you get it for all the other birds..

[Nate--IRL--]

Good point. I don't fly the F-15, so I stand corrected. Thanks

 

Nate

[Frederf]

One correction... along with speed and other signs you will get "KA50" when locked onto a shark, with a '15 just as you get it for all the other birds..

 

That would be FC2's simplistic NCTR implementation, wouldn't it? The radar looking into the turbofan inlet and reading the vanes... oh wait.

[Cueball]

If in the A10 if your in A-A mode your seeker would most likely detect the heat from the KA50 but you would have to be facing the target and in close enough range to detect it.

[RIPTIDE]

If in the A10 if your in A-A mode your seeker would most likely detect the heat from the KA50 but you would have to be facing the target and in close enough range to detect it.

I can tell you from recent experience on the 104th... a Mav is very good at shooting down a (moving) chopper. :D No need to A-A mode either. :D

 

I have found that, however ARH and SARH are not very reliable against the Ka-50. Heaters are a lot better. And Guns are very effective. That said, I have had the pleasure of been online when some of the chopper jocks manage a A-A Vikhrs kill against fast movers.

[Vekkinho]

One correction... along with speed and other signs you will get "KA50" when locked onto a shark, with a '15 just as you get it for all the other birds..

 

LOL! F-15C, a plane to have in your fleet!

 

OK, never heard of way to discriminate helos by using only radar, you're lucky if you're able to lock 'em up in the first place, so please someone explain how's this possible in FC?!!

 

By browsing thru AN/APG-70 RCS database and Coax rotor fingerprints?!!

[RIPTIDE]

LOL! F-15C, a plane to have in your fleet!

 

OK, never heard of way to discriminate helos by using only radar, you're lucky if you're able to lock 'em up in the first place, so please someone explain how's this possible in FC?!!

 

By browsing thru AN/APG-70 RCS database and Coax rotor fingerprints?!!

Not sure. But its not like in the Russian jets you can't distinguish a chopper from a plane. When you radar lock on you will see a violently shaking aspect arrow for the contact. With other cues, you'll know straight away its a chopper. The thing with the russian planes is that if/when the radar looses lock and falls back to EOS, chopper will know as the laser rangefinder gives the alert. And you really don't want the entire pool laughing at you when you get owned by a vikhrs or cannon. :D

Edited June 15, 2010 by RIPTIDE

[EtherealN]

IDing radar signal returns is an old feature.

As for being lucky to lock them up in the first place: IRL the massive doppler return on the rotor blades ensures that you will always get a very lockable signal on the helicopters. I'd assume the technical way to differentiate between helicopters would be the same as for discriminating fixed wing contacts.

 

And you really don't want the entire pool laughing at you when you get owned by a vikhrs or cannon. :D

 

Any fighter that gets "owned" by a Ka-50 needs to learn how to fly, to be honest. For the Ka-50 to kill you you need to be down so low that you are jamming your own radar, which is not a good thing. ;)

 

Fly high, use your radar, and kill them from afar. If they're being annoying with hovering and such hiding tactics, use altitude to get a good field of view to look for launches, dust and so on, and then kill them from above.

Edited June 15, 2010 by EtherealN

[Vekkinho]

IDing radar signal returns is an old feature.

As for being lucky to lock them up in the first place: IRL the massive doppler return on the rotor blades ensures that you will always get a very lockable signal on the helicopters. I'd assume the technical way to differentiate between helicopters would be the same as for discriminating fixed wing contacts.

 

 

 

 

Yes, so unability to scan a helo in FC if range to it is greater than 5 km is something to be fixed in next FC2.X patch, by the time you're close enough to lock it you can already call Tally on it!

 

AFAIK giant 15m diameter disc on top of a helo turns its RCS into one of a smaller airliner especially if scanned from close proximity. But I'm not talking of radar being blind on low, hovering helos as these turn static and blend in with ground clutter.

[EtherealN]

I've locked up helicopters from much further out than 5km, both with russian birds and F-15C. If you cannot, either you are doing something wrong (self-jamming your radar, wrong mode or something) or the helicopter is doing something right (staying around the notch).

 

This is unlikely to be "fixed" in a patch, since the helicopters were made hard to lock on by design: it was made that way so Ka-50 players won't be complete sitting ducks online, which is what they would be unless they have very good top-cover which unfortunately is rare online. In reality a radar like the APG-63 should be able to find and lock a hovering Ka-50 from as far out as 40nm at least - even if it is sitting on the ground (but with rotors spinning).

[Vekkinho]

...which might derail this thread into Ballance vs Realism issue we had so many times before so let's conclude. Currently, DCS and FC2.0 is made to give all players a chance of success without being dependant on other units and assets but I hope we'll see more on-line teamwork between F-15C and AH-64 pilots in the future of DCS multiplayer. In fact it should become a must!