Oaths of a multi-player simulation pilot

[Bearitall]

 

Sportsmanship! - IMO the most important of all. I like competition as much as the next guy, but there is no reason to act immaturely when you are killed, or if things don't go you way. A "good kill" to your opponent is never a bad thing to say. Respect goes a long way.

 

This is the biggest thing ..we at TCL-Team Combat League make competition rules and some players disagree with them because it doesn't suit them..well our rules are set to try and meet everyone's satisfaction...not everyone will be happy...and you can't make everyone happy...:thumbup:

 

 

Be a good sport goes along way...more than you know

[Grimes]

Lock-on is a simulation. Maybe not as hi-fidelity as other simulators, but still a simulator. It annoys me how some people in this community condescendingly starts pulling words like air-quake and arcade out of their asses as soon as someone doesn't comply with their standards of brevity-discipline.

 

As someone who tends to mention the concept of airquake with regard to lockon, I assure you, my reasons have little to do with brevity. More-so it has to do with the overall sense of impatience (among other things) that is clearly visible in online play. Most notably and relevant to this topic is airport operations. "Chaotic" often best describes what its like at any given airbase. It annoys me to see random wreckage on the runway, or to have someone takeoff/land opposite ILS of my approach, or to see someone cut across the grass to get to the runway rather than taking the taxi ways.

 

This is a simulation game with a large variety of playing styles. Some wish to be more serious about it, while others treat it as a game, and the rest are somewhere in between the two. I wish there was a common "flight etiquette" that most players follow by default, but that isn't always the case. Part of the issue is there is no built in organization to multiplayer, nor does it feel anything like the single player experience. This disconnect effectively makes them two separate games.

[104th_Crunch]

... Most notably and relevant to this topic is airport operations. "Chaotic" often best describes what its like at any given airbase. It annoys me to see random wreckage on the runway, or to have someone takeoff/land opposite ILS of my approach, or to see someone cut across the grass to get to the runway rather than taking the taxi ways.

.

 

Maybe we could make a common shortlist procedure for takeoff/landing and post it on all the major servers' briefs. Many people do not know what ILS is or even how runway numbers work.

[graywo1fg]

..... whats ILS?..... :P

[104th_Crunch]

..... whats ILS?..... :P

 

:doh: :chair: :cry_2:

[Smoky]

I really had no idea there were such strong convictions either way. This is turning out to be a cool thread.

 

When I fly, it is to enjoy myself. And for me, personally, that means attempting to achieve a level of immersion. And LockOn is so enjoyable that the immersion comes easy, until the goofy stuff starts happening. And then it gets awkward. I think for the most part folks are getting the points I tried to make in the OP. It's not about strict behavior, but about behavior management. I liked the comment about no excess in either direction. And about FC not turning into Xbox.

 

I guess it's just an attitude of "try to do" and not "must do". Especially on a server where immersion and simulation are important. And there are many folks who don't even try when they join a server with formal overtones. And that decreases immersion. When you're in a server, say the 104th, and you takeoff against the pattern, do tower flybys, and take out any target you come across (opfor or not) then that seems kinda lame.

 

And it's not about elitism or noobness. If I go into a quake server and start tk'ing, spawn killing, or glitching then I'm not a noob...I'm just annoying. Same applies here. If you do taxiway takeoffs, suicide runs, and treat others poorly than after a while you become unwelcome. There are just other servers for informal play. Pointing out that there is a distinction doesn't make for hubris. If I assumed that all pilots who preferred arcade were less skilled than those pilots who preferred sim, then that might be elitist or arrogant. Such a sentiment couldn't be further from my point of making the distinction in my OP.

 

I think the discussion here validates that the distinction does indeed exist. Perhaps it would behoove hosts to decide the behavior they wish to encourage and consider labeling their server and briefing with appropriate detail as Crunch suggests. Then it becomes less of a "recognize a sim environment when I see it" perception and ends up more of a concrete "house rule".

 

Cheers

Edited June 29, 2010 by Smoky

[Booger]

I think GG put it very well; don't expect people to act like real pilots all the time, but kick them the hell out if they act like assholes.

 

This is so full of win.

[astrospud]

Forgive the resistance offered in my first post, as the OP was that of an oath to be undertaken.

To undertake an oath is to swear to abide by a set of rules/code of conduct.

Upon joining a server, like the 104th dedicated I feel that, in my conduct I am abiding by the server rules. With regard to the OP, I believe I "try to do" as you have put it, as I am still learning; ergo, I am abiding by the oath, yet not signed to it.

 

When I fly, it is to enjoy myself. And for me, personally, that means attempting to achieve a level of immersion. And LockOn is so enjoyable that the immersion comes easy, until the goofy stuff starts happening. And then it gets awkward.

 

I couldn't agree more. It's when the level of my experience doesn't match that of yours that I see the difference in our two opinions. eg targets of opportunity, level of brevity etc...

 

FC2 and definitely the DCS series will never become Xbox live, or god-forbid, a Hawx MP game, simply for the complexity of both. I believe it discourages potential a-holes simply because there is a learning curve to deal with. My argument arises from giving opportunity to those that have put in the time to learn aircraft systems, navigation and maybe some brevity.

 

As it would seem you are or the same opinion to a degree, I suggest maybe not an oath but simply a ticker across top of chat window, reminding players of what is required when joining a given server.

 

I'm not sure how easy/hard this would be from a modding/coding point of view, but since few, if any a-holes read the brief (and any server rules in the text) then a repeating message might help it sink in.

[Udat]

As someone who tends to mention the concept of airquake with regard to lockon, I assure you, my reasons have little to do with brevity. More-so it has to do with the overall sense of impatience (among other things) that is clearly visible in online play. Most notably and relevant to this topic is airport operations. "Chaotic" often best describes what its like at any given airbase. It annoys me to see random wreckage on the runway, or to have someone takeoff/land opposite ILS of my approach, or to see someone cut across the grass to get to the runway rather than taking the taxi ways.

 

This is a simulation game with a large variety of playing styles. Some wish to be more serious about it, while others treat it as a game, and the rest are somewhere in between the two. I wish there was a common "flight etiquette" that most players follow by default, but that isn't always the case. Part of the issue is there is no built in organization to multiplayer, nor does it feel anything like the single player experience. This disconnect effectively makes them two separate games.

 

Well, agreed on all points actually. I remember often beeing the one whinig the loudest about all the taxi takeoffs on the 169th when I started flying online about 2 years ago, I always use brevity when flying with others, in fact I pretty much act in compliance with that list when I fly, and I certainly don't think that you or most of the guys that use the term air-quake and arcade don't mean any offense by it.

 

BUT; as GG hinted at, there is a limit to what should be expected of people when they are relaxing and having fun on their free time. When communities of virtual pilots fly more and more realistically together and get closer and closer to the reality of aerial combat operations, I'm thinking it can become easy to forget that there are others that doesn't have the time to or just isn't interested in it (like you said.) And to label them arcade pilots or air-quakers just because they are a more casual kind of virtual pilot (even if no offense is meant, and it's just an old term) is to me extremely unfair and condescending, and I'm betting it have turned one or two necomers away from the community. And the thought of that kinda makes me see red. I think we should separate "as-real-as-it-gets-flying" from general good behaviour, because they are NOT the same thing.

 

So I guess we agree, except on what to call what.. I suggest kicking the terms arcade and air-quake out of our vocabularies, agree on a list of parameter that defines low-fidelity server, medium fidelity servers and high-fidelity servers (or something of the likes, because there seems to be a need for it,) and do ur best to root out taxiway takeoffs and mid-flight exits and general bad behaviour together on ALL servers (unless the server creators approve of it,) that way we don't end up unintentionally scaring off newcomers, but show them a well-structured and well-behaved and friendly community.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Udat
moment of clairty

[Peyoteros]

As the poll shows, no matter that there will be 29 players on the server abiding the "oath", there will be another four who will take off from taxi ways and do all the other stuff the 29 won't... And there is nothing anyone can do about it. This is so called "human nature". This is how this world rolls. I never seem to stop being amazed. Every time I come by train to Wimbledon (South West London, UK) on the way from the platform to the exit there is a stairs, which are devided in half, left side marked "Use this side" and the right says "no entry"... so the people coming to the train uses right side... yeah, right... Every time I look at those "people" who fights they way to the exit I'm amazed! Well, actually I'm not...

So, the answer is simple. - "Servman v2.5" comming soon to the servers near you!

Edited June 29, 2010 by Peyoteros

[3Sqn_TomAce]

I see it like this segregation in this community from a game play perspective won't work at least not now with the relative low numbers in the community, If we do and mind you its been done before you'll end up with more servers with fewer players in each server.

 

 

Education via better briefs, maybe even as suggested a community standard for domestics might work.

 

One idea 3Sqn has been thinking about is putting on training days for non tactical concepts open to all without the hosting group expecting anything in return other then the possibility of bettering the community by a small margin. Other established squads can do the same, good opportunity for new guys to feel out different groups and see what one they might like to be apart of. Getting to know each other on a level other then introduction from the end of an AMRAAM would be a good thing also.

Edited June 29, 2010 by 3Sqn_TomAce

[Udat]

Now THAT is a good idea!

[Grimes]

 

BUT; as GG hinted at, there is a limit to what should be expected of people when they are relaxing and having fun on their free time. When communities of virtual pilots fly more and more realistically together and get closer and closer to the reality of aerial combat operations, I'm thinking it can become easy to forget that there are others that doesn't have the time to or just isn't interested in it (like you said.)

 

The interesting bit is that every game suffers from some form of "unacceptable behavior." It happens surprisingly often in a wide variety of games. It can range from griefing, to mic spam in games with build in VOIP, to overall ignorance of how to play. I couldn't tell you how often I heard racial slurs and derogatory comments... and not just on Xbox live but many many PC games also. It depends on the mood of the server, for some players its nervewreckingly tense watching someone else play and let their team down, likewise if the mood is more playful the same moment will probably be different.

 

Most games have a basic understand and etiquette of how to play. Personally, for flight sims the standards should be slightly higher than say.... a FPS or RTS game simply because alot of people treat it as a "sim" rather than a "game". Thus if someone completely ignores the very basics of flight and taxiing, they should probably be warned about it. The good part is that we aren't trapped in a boxed canyon having to see and deal with said player throughout the game. Aside from the airbase operations, there is little personal involvement with other players once they get airborne. Outside of teamkilling or locking you up on radar constantly for no reason, you could easily ignore and stay away from them. They could shout, "I LEARNED THIS FROM PUALA ABDUL!" before doing something stupid and you wouldn't know the wiser.

[Udat]

I think we all agree on this part. There is just no way to eliminate the occasional verbal attack, teamkill, and such in any online game. And I agree that we are in a unique position as simmers. We have a forum that is probably way over par with new concepts and idea to improve our online experience. Yoda's incredible work is a good example; I remember suggesting that there might be something to be done with taxiway takeoffs in his thread, and maybe 12 hours later it was allready wip, 10 more hours and it was implemented in the mod, and soon after almost no servers had taxiway takeoffs because engines would spool down to idle if you exceeded 50kts I think it was on taxiways. There is so much potential in this community; let's focus on making our online experience even better with ideas like Tom posted above, the increasingly dynamic mp missions, the fantastic events, etc..

 

The odd, rotten apple is pretty much a fact of life, nothing to do with that except striving to teach our new players how to behave online, while strictly enforcing the pretty much universally accepted rules about good conduct that we (more or less) have.

[Boberro]

Name an "arcade server" please. If not "speaking with brevity" is your idea of arcade play; good luck finding a 100% clean "simulation server."

 

Lock-on is a simulation. Maybe not as hi-fidelity as other simulators, but still a simulator. It annoys me how some people in this community condescendingly starts pulling words like air-quake and arcade out of their asses as soon as someone doesn't comply with their standards of brevity-discipline. I think GG put it very well; don't expect people to act like real pilots all the time, but kick them the hell out if they act like assholes.

 

Personally I don't know but in my case in Falcon as an example I play really carefully. There even landing procedure requires to be careful. In LO I don't feel this regime... in LO it is much easier to NOT fly with correct procedures than in Falcon. For me LO was and is semi arcade game with great playability and much fun. I just feel that...

[Udat]

Pacman, Asteroids and Super Mario Bros are arcade games. Hawx is technically an actiongame but I understand if simmers call it "arcadeish." Lockon IS a simulator; compare it to Falcon this and Falcon that all you want, but calling it arcade is nothing short of extreme snobbery, at least to everyone not proficient in the real start-up procedures of a real millitary plane or two, and I suspect most real fighterpilots wouldn't use the term either. I'm just sick and tired of people coming from more hi-fidelity sims with their noses in the air calling my beloved, simple, SIMULATOR an arcade game (even though I suspect no offense is meant.)

[GGTharos]

Bob doesn't come from a hi-fi sim, it's more of a lack of understanding that a flight sim is what you make of it - while he's right about the provided atmosphere, what makes a flight sim realistic is your own discipline.

[Frostie]

Personally I don't know but in my case in Falcon as an example I play really carefully. There even landing procedure requires to be careful. In LO I don't feel this regime... in LO it is much easier to NOT fly with correct procedures than in Falcon. For me LO was and is semi arcade game with great playability and much fun. I just feel that...

I think your confusing whether it takes an artificial voice to tell you to fly it like your simulating a fighter or whether you can actually do it for yourself without prompt.

 

The 51st has hosted some fantatsic GCI/ATC weekend events in 1.12 in the past which encouraged everyone to get on TS and communicate, IMO this is the way to go rather than enforcing laws on individuals.

[Booger]

...what makes a flight sim realistic is your own discipline.

 

+1