Do western RWRs display relative threat elevation?

[GGTharos]

Specifically for ALR-56/C and ALR-69.

 

If you know something and you can say something, please do tell. Actual symbology not required, just whether the RWR displays if the threat is above/below you.

[Sticky]

Is this for you or for ED? (if for ED im thinking it could mean something... like they are or plan to work on a F-15 or F16.... :P or it could mean nothing :P and also im not 100% sure about what planes use those.. )

 

Some of you have very active imaginations.

[GGTharos]

Ehm ... in a way for both, and that quote is also correct.

[Sticky]

I like the quote ;)

[mvsgas]

Are you asking if the RWR can detect threats above/below you or if the display in the cockpit shows if the threats are above you /below you?

[GGTharos]

I am asking if the display shows that the threats are above/below.

[Sticky]

And you are asking about one RWR that is used in the F15E and one RWR that is used in the F16 variants and A10. Could this mean something :P who knows ;)

[GGTharos]

It means I want to know :)

[mvsgas]

AFAIK (just going by books and what you read on the net) Both the ALR-56(any version) and ALR-69 display only direction of the threat and if it is within range to fire or not.

[GGTharos]

There's also some very (very) reliable stuff on the net that very (very) strongly suggests otherwise, but there's no 'smoking gun'.

 

AFAIK (just going by books and what you read on the net) Both the ALR-56(any version) and ALR-69 display only direction of the threat and if it is within range to fire or not.

Edited August 26, 2010 by GGTharos

[GGTharos]

To be clear, I know that information concerning the displays and symbology is secret; I'm not asking anyone to reveal anything secret, I'm asking on the off, slim chance that someone knows of a public source that might confirm/deny the matter.

[Krippz]

I've seen some sources online indicate that the ALR-69 can discern threat elevation and some saying that it cannot so any concrete insight would be nice. Thanks for the effort GG.

[mvsgas]

There's also some very (very) reliable stuff on the net that very (very) strongly suggests otherwise, but there's no 'smoking gun'.

Ok,

How accurate would the altitude indication be?

 

Will it tell you exact feet or a generic above or below you?

 

What are the benefits of knowing the altitude of the radar if it only tell you generic information?

[GGTharos]

Just above/below. The actual altitude would probably not be reliable anyway, but knowing if the threat is above or below you (in therms of altitude) it is helpful when dealing with an airborne threat.

[bumfire]

For the ALR69 I dont think it does, but I couldnt really say.

 

I found this.

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/srd_alr69srd.html

 

In it it says,

 

The overall performance of the RWR system shall provide the following functions: situation awareness, e.g., threat identification and integrated diagnostics. Situation awareness shall provide the crew with threat type, emitter mode and threat angle-of-arrival (AOA) information.

 

no mention of threat elevation, atleast for the ALR69

 

There is mention of elevation, but I think thats just the workign envelope of the system, i.e it can pick up warnings from above and below, but as far as I can see on that webpage, there is no mention of it being able to display threat elevation, but somehow I cant see them not having something like the russians, as I think it would be stupid to get a threat warning but not know if its above or below you.

Edited August 27, 2010 by bumfire

[Bimbac]

Just above/below. The actual altitude would probably not be reliable anyway, but knowing if the threat is above or below you (in therms of altitude) it is helpful when dealing with an airborne threat.

 

According to my sources, Western systems generally do not display threat relative altitude. The pilot is supposed to learn various symbols displayed on the RWR to discriminate the threat type. Good source of the symbology is the original Falcon 4.0 manual.

 

The conclusion is that by memorizing the symbols and sounds generated by RWR you should be able to recognize the threat type.

 

To be honest, I am not familiar with the latest systems installed in F-22 or F-35, I suppose they utilize more advanced EW gear.

 

I just hope this was helpful to you. If you like some more detailed info, please let me know.

 

Have a nice day!

[nscode]

For the ALR69 I dont think it does, but I couldnt really say.

 

I found this.

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/srd_alr69srd.html

 

 

...

 

 

I think that the (low) antenna count is a clue. Like ALR69, SPO-15 has two antennas in front, and two in the back. But in addition to those it has one more on the top, and one on the bottom, to determine elevation. ALR69 (per that document) does not have those.

 

BUT... then you look at the antenna placement. The rear two are at different position vertically. On F-16, there is one in the root of the rudder, and one on top. The reason for this could be to enable the phase difference to be used to calculate elevation. :juggle:

[GGTharos]

It seems they don't need to be spaced that far apart ... the F-15 gets its elevation signal from a double element inside one of the wingtip mounts.

[mvsgas]

How does the system display altitude to the pilot? Are the symbols different for threats above/ below the aircraft?

[GGTharos]

How is classified; it's one of those documents you get to view in the vault. I know the signal and processing and hardware is there for it on the F-15. I don't know what the display does, therefore I'm asking if anyone has any information regarding this ;)

 

As long as it is known that it does (or not), then the symbols can be made up - ie. if it does, you can, for example, use a v instead of a ^ when an airborne threat is below your altitude.

 

How does the system display altitude to the pilot? Are the symbols different for threats above/ below the aircraft?

[Pilotasso]

I will say this, from what I have heard and read, there are some passive systems precise enough, probably coupled with datalink between aircraft for triangulation (details are classified) can infact locate enemy emmissions (both distance and angles up/down and sides) and even place defensive LOAL shots in any direction (provided the aircraft is armed with thrust vectored weapons).

 

Not every plane and not every user has access to this advanced capabilities. The rest of us flying exported equipment very much likely has only the traditional capabilities. Unfortunatly this info comes as is and I am unable reffer to any official sources, nor specify more details.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

Sounds like the Raptor's ALR-94 ;)

[Pilotasso]

Not only. ;)

[Eddie]

Not only. ;)

 

Indeed, I know of at least one other aircraft with similar capability. ;)

 

No idea about the specific models you're after though GG I'm afraid.

[Krippz]

Indeed, I know of at least one other aircraft with similar capability. ;)

 

They sure teach people how to tease in the RAF :megalol:.