First weekend impressions with the TM WARTHOG

[coolts]

Con3para PM’d me asking what I thought of the hog so far. I guess he got more than he asked for...;)

 

(Compared to my un-modded cougar and previous sticks, basic saitek cyborg & cyborg evo ff)

 

I can only compare to my previous experience and would be very interested at others impressions versus their “significant other HOTAS”, especially a modded Cougar, G940 and X65, as well as the CH of course ;). As a high end product it’s not fair to compare this against the X52 IMO as the costs clearly differentiate the market here.

 

STICK: FOR

 

· Even force to extremes. No more herculean effort to get max G’s from stick. Makes landings and take offs a piece of cake compared to the Cougar.

 

· Accurate as hell. Makes gun play a real pleasure. I can now get great accuracy scores over the old stick. When properly trimmed the stick is leagues ahead of anything I have ever tried before, (but that’s not saying much).

 

· No centre play at all. This used to drive me insane on the Cougar, and the Evo, and the Cyborg. In fact every damn joystick I have owned apart from my Atari stick in 1982 has wobbled somehow. I am now liberated from wobble! (Ggrrr apart from the throttle – see below).

 

· Accurate as hell #2, (I can draw pictures on the screen in the cougar joystick analyser!) that speaks volumes. You can go anywhere in the air. If the airframe is capable and you have the finesse, the stick WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN. This is a revelation to me and I can now see what all those lucky guys with NXT and FCC modded Cougars were on about. You have it here in the Hog!

 

· Heavy, stays put. Made to last. Potential home defence weapon. Nuff said.

 

 

AGAINST

 

· Big. This doesn’t bother me but it’s taller than the Cougar was. I’ve got big-ish hands.

 

· Buttons are very stiff. Military grade based on real USAF weightings. You either live with that or don’t. I don’t mind. I’m getting used to it. I will build stronger fingers.

 

· Big footprint. If you have small desk..... Your keyboard can rest on the base plate though as its only a few mm thick. Couldn’t do that with the Cougar!

 

 

THROTTLE:FOR

 

· Very well built. Its industrial quality. This looks like it was taken from the real hog, (without the dangling wires). Using this for home defence would require more strength than its worth, plus a VERY lenient judge, (“sooooo you intended only to incapacitate the intruder did you?”).

 

· Metal apart from throttle shafts. Switches are really cool and go “clunk” like all proper switches should but seldom do. Think about the ‘death star’ firing sequence. That’s what I'm talking about.

 

· Lots of switches and hats. You simply could not use any more without finger grafting or until future evolved intelligent octopi or millipedes learn how to fly sims. And with A-10c with its hats and boat switches, need I say more?

 

· Out of the box A-10 compatible. No fannying around for weeks just to get the damn thing to take off. Plug in, switch on, and take off. This cannot be understated. What ED/TM has done here just show that the ENTIRE industry has had its head stuck right up its own arse in this regard for decades. Built-in HOTAS profiles please from future sims from now on. I don’t care if the game devs or the HOTAS devs do it, as long as someone does. This is the way forward. The top 3 or 4 HOTAS systems should have this done for them at least. The amount of time we all spend farting around in Foxy, etc.......its geeky fun yes but it’s not why we are here is it? (Rant over, move on...).

 

· Proper lift idle detents. No cougar CLIKCLAK..... CLIKCLAK to wake other half. This is replaced with proper lift detents. Silent, cool as hell and very professional. Did I mention cool as hell? Yes I did. It was worth mentioning twice that. The ‘Cool ‘ part.

 

· Split throttles very sturdy and smooth. Silky smooth. Like warm butter on top of a.....[stop it]. Even pressure, no grinding, like a Cadburys caramel advert. After its been lubricated.

 

· No sticking like the cougar did. As I said above, it takes almost the same amount of pressure to move as it takes to keep moving. Compared to the cougar which was like pushing a stalled tractor over the top of a very large hill. All hard work at first followed by a “oh that just got easier.....oops.....sorry”.

 

 

AGAINST

 

· No rotaries. I use the right hand side axis for zoom view. TBH this pissed me off at first but I didn’t really use the rotaries much in any case when I came to think about it and radar elev / range can always be mapped to something else in FC2 / Falcon.

 

· Not very ergonomic. The Falcon / Cougar throttle was moulded to a human hand. It was futuristic and sexy as hell. The A-10c / F-15e throttle is a beast. You have to mould your hand TO IT. There’s no middle ground. You will get used to it. After 3 days I am now getting comfortable. This is a Hummer versus a Porsche in terms of design aesthetic. Both have strong points IMO.

 

· Slew hat designed for your middle finger. I don’t know about you but my middle finger isn’t that manoeuvrable ;) It makes target acquisition interesting. Again, another thing to get used to. Real hog pilots must do.

 

· Some centre play in the throttles in split mode, the left on has 3mm side to side and the right one 3mm back and forth play. I just noticed this in the last few hours. About 3mm back and forth with no output. Hmmmmmm. Not sure if it did that yesterday. Annoying. Might just be a “settling in thing”. I will keep an eye on this as it seems like the Hog Achilles heel may well be the plastic throttle uprights. Time will tell and I haven’t compared this slight play to the G940 or X65. Others can comment on this.

 

 

Overall impression

 

I wrote quite a bit in the ‘against ‘, sections yet overall I am happy with the hog and would buy it again. It’s human nature to nitpick and for £330 I am entitled to expect (semi) perfection IMO.

 

This HOTAS has totally redefined the way I hunt and fly in the A-10c. As it was designed from the real A-10c controls, this probably shouldn’t have surprised me as much, but after 2 days solid playing I have moved on more in terms of proficiency and enjoyment from the sim than I did in 3 weeks with the cougar. It is simply that much of a game changer.

 

This is ‘now’ however. No one knows what ED will do after A-10 and £330 is a lot of money, (more than I have ever spent on anything PC related that didn’t have NVIDIA or ATI stamped on it), and the symbiosis between stick and sim simply won’t be the same with an Apache or F-16 for instance, for obvious reasons. This has been mulled over before in other threads and whether this detracts from the hog in the long term, (it’s hard to compare as no other HOTAS apart from its predecessor were ever 100% based on a real set of controls AFAIK), will only be answered when we start to produce profiles for other sims and see how they get on when released into the wild.

 

Would I buy one today with what I now know? You bet I would ;)

 

Back to some tank plinking. I don’t need guided munitions now. I can drop a mk82 on top of a tank commanders head from 4000ft with my hog! And that’s entertainment.:thumbup:

 

Cheers guys

 

Coolts

Edited November 1, 2010 by coolts

[kylania]

How comfortable is the TMS/DMS/Slew/ChinaHat switch usage with regards to smoothly finding, locking and persecuting a target? Right now I'm using a whole combination of Thumb hats on the stick, plus slew on the throttle, plus keyboard buttons and it's a mess. I'm wondering how I'll do with the switch to doing it all via HOTAS.

[Steel Jaw]

Thanx for the notes.

 

Some day if I have the cash I may get one.

 

Until then, I must live with my unmodded imperfect Cougar.

[CrashEd]

A very honest and accurate review :thumbup:

 

Not experienced any slop in either of my throttles, but definitely something to keep an eye on. Might be worth tinkering with the friction wheel, see if that helps?

[badaboom]

Coolts,Thx for your no BS honest review!!!

Cheers

[Cali]

Thanx for the notes.

 

Some day if I have the cash I may get one.

 

Until then, I must live with my unmodded imperfect Cougar.

 

Wow, you have been flying with a unmodded cougar for how long! I bet your arm is in great shape.

[Teej]

I don't think that has anything to do with his Cougar, Cali. ;)

[Teej]

But seriously though...nice writeup, Coolts.

 

When I first tried one I was afraid the circular nature was going to be more difficult for AG gunnery but I just haven't had an issue there.

 

I've done a few aerial refuelings with it both in AF and FC2 and as much as I love my FCC cougar, it's definitely easier to match the tanker with the Warthog.

[Shaman]

Wow, you have been flying with a unmodded cougar for how long! I bet your arm is in great shape.

Want to wrestle with me?!:joystick:

I have been flying unmodded Cougar full 4 years till today as I declared it officially unairworthy due to large center play that expanded in last year and spiking pots. This piece of hardware is done and will await better days when I have money to modify it into Realsimulator's FSSB and mod the damn throttle problems too.

HOTAS Warthog is supposed to be shipped to me on 4-Nov-2010. I guess I will wait another two weeks.

First post (review) is fantastic. I laughed several times when reading through it.:lol:

[Cali]

I was just making fun of the ole guy...kinda. Someone might win a free cougar...if I win the free warthog at simhq.

 

Unmodded cougar is a fight in itself.

[Poor mans sniper]

Hmm.. I think I would rather get a Henry Lever-action Rifle or M1 Garand for 150$ less than this.

[kylania]

Hmm.. I think I would rather get a Henry Lever-action Rifle or M1 Garand for 150$ less than this.

 

That's like listening to someone describe how delicious the shiny red apple they just ate was and saying, "No thanks, I think I'll go buy a lawnmower instead!". :megalol:

[RaoulDuke1980]

I love my HOTAS warthog :) I'm loving the real pressures on the trigger and hack button, it means that no silly mistakes are made when you are running in to target under fire. You have to mash the buggers to fire weapons :P My only gripes are the wee mouse stick, it is WAY too sensitve, and TARGET gui crashes when you try to launch it, and the throttles wobble a bit when they are separated. (As in there is a bit of side to side movement, bad construction)

 

edit: and my desk is too damn small for the throttle. It hangs off a bit, and whenever I power down I nearly end up with 4 kilos of steel on my crotch. Fun times :D

Edited November 1, 2010 by RaoulDuke1980
Additional info

[LawnDart]

Coolts,Thx for your no BS honest review!!!

Cheers

 

...proving that the numerous reports by beta testers weren't off the mark! ;)

 

Good write-up Coolts!

[Poor mans sniper]

That's like listening to someone describe how delicious the shiny red apple they just ate was and saying, "No thanks, I think I'll go buy a lawnmower instead!". :megalol:

Well, It depends on your interests. For me, it seems that just an X-52 would be good for sims and whatnot.

[Teej]

...proving that the numerous reports by beta testers weren't off the mark! ;)

 

Indeed.

 

Now people can see why we didn't bother getting defensive when we got called fanboys (or worse.) :D

 

It was kinda 'Well...nothing I can say is going to change your mind, and you'll see eventually, so...whatever." Heheheh.

[skypirate]

Excellent review, I tottaly agree.

Here's my 2 cents:

 

Yes the throttle is big, that is why I like it. And everything is metal. And heavy, yet again that is why I like it. I actually love only looking at it. Because it is a piece of art IMO.

 

So far the only little problem is the muscle fatique on my trigger fingers :)

I might get muscle fatigue on the right hand too. I guess A-10 pilots are rough guys anyway.

 

The only thing that really needs to be fixed is the slew control (microstick). It is way too sensitive, but I guess DCS will be fixing this for the A-10 simulation. Until then the slew control is taken over by the Microphone Switch.

[LawnDart]

...when we got called fanboys (or worse.) :D

 

I believe it's "fanbois"... but what do I know?!:megalol:

 

The only thing that really needs to be fixed is the slew control (microstick).

 

Oh, trust me this has been very high on our priority list of suggested fixes... next to the addition of rudder pedals of course (cross your fingers - and now that we may actually have TM's ears, send them a request for Warthog rudder pedals *hint hint*)!!! :smilewink:

[coolts]

Cheers guys. That was a gigantic weekend long brainfart that just had to come out otherwise I would have had indigestion ;)

 

How comfortable is the TMS/DMS/Slew/ChinaHat switch usage with regards to smoothly finding, locking and persecuting a target? Right now I'm using a whole combination of Thumb hats on the stick, plus slew on the throttle, plus keyboard buttons and it's a mess. I'm wondering how I'll do with the switch to doing it all via HOTAS.

Put it this way. After 3 weeks of assigning A-10 controls to various switches on my cougar i had just about achieved a “one pass and haul ass” Maverick success rate.

 

Within one day of the hog i can successfully launch 2. Once you teach your fingers, it’s so much easier. Once ED sort the Mav’s I reckon that I will be getting 3 off the rail no trouble. The time taken is in switching back to the TGP and reassigning SPI and re-slaving the mav after each launch, (all the while remembering what is SOI). Much easier in the hog.

 

How comfortable is the TMS/DMS/Slew/ChinaHat switch usage with regards to smoothly finding, locking and persecuting a target? Right now I'm using a whole combination of Thumb hats on the stick, plus slew on the throttle, plus keyboard buttons and it's a mess. I'm wondering how I'll do with the switch to doing it all via HOTAS.

With throttles separated, I get 2-3mm back/forward in the right one and 2-3,, left to right in the left one. Friction doesn’t affect this, just the actual travel. Can you confirm this? As if mine does and yours doesn’t, Mr Amazon is getting an RMA.

 

Wow, you have been flying with a unmodded cougar for how long! I bet your arm is in great shape.

TBH, my previous sticks were such pieces of crap that even an unmodded Cougar was like some kind of geek nirvana, and the force required to move it just make it feel more ‘manly’ ;)

 

My only gripes are the wee mouse stick, it is WAY too sensitve, and TARGET gui crashes when you try to launch it, and the throttles wobble a bit when they are separated. (As in there is a bit of side to side movement, bad construction)

Don’t forget that the TGP/mouse stick sensitivity issue is ED’s WIP to fix. Try it out in the TAD. Its spot on. TARGET works if you set your location/keyboard to US, (i know I know its a bug). All i want TARGET for now is to set some MACROS for views, etc.

 

Do you have the same slight wobble-when-separated as me mate?

 

BY THE WAY DUDE...5-1.... 5-1 CHRIS HUGHTON IS A GEORDIE!!!!! (Apologies to any Sunderland fans out there. I have some Morrissey records and a bar of soap that might see you through this difficult time)

 

Well, It depends on your interests. For me, it seems that just an X-52 would be good for sims and whatnot.

I’m not going to criticise anybody who doesn’t want to lay down £330 for a stick. Paying £400 for my bloody car insurance the month before put that into perspective making me think, “Hang on a minute My Cameron/Clegg whatever your bloody names are, that’s my money!” The Hog is my one man rebellion against the British tax system!

 

So far the only little problem is the muscle fatigue on my trigger fingers

I might get muscle fatigue on the right hand too. I guess A-10 pilots are rough guys anyway.

I know what you mean mate. Mind you, there a quite a few RL girl A-10 pilots so I wouldn’t complain too loudly when they are at the bar ;)

Edited November 1, 2010 by coolts

[con3para]

Would like to say thanks for a great write up ..im sold...lol..and your right i got more than i bargined for for ..lol , one is in the post ...ill keep an eye on the play with the throttles...see what happens ...

Edited November 1, 2010 by con3para

[Loz]

The only thing that really needs to be fixed is the slew control (microstick). It is way too sensitive, but I guess DCS will be fixing this for the A-10 simulation. Until then the slew control is taken over by the Microphone Switch.

 

Totally agree with this except that I think I'll stick to trying to get close with the microstick and then fine tune on the ,/.; with the keyboard.

Need all the practise I can get with the "muscle memory" on my middle finger. :thumbup:

And it's only on the max zoomed in View with the TGP that I find it impossible to control.

[some1]

Don’t forget that the TGP/mouse stick sensitivity issue is ED’s WIP to fix. Try it out in the TAD. Its spot on. TARGET works if you set your location/keyboard to US, (i know I know its a bug). All i want TARGET for now is to set some MACROS for views, etc.

 

And here is a problem I think. When you use TARGET, it combines both the stick and the throttle into one combined virtual controller. And all your predefines DCS assignments go byebye, because that controler is not recognized in DCS.

 

So it's not like you don't need TARGET in DCS:A-10C. You CAN'T use it, unless you want to program everything from scratch again. I had to find another way to map Trackir reset button or Teamspeak transmit.

 

Maybe there is some way to disable joystick virtualization in TARGET, but I haven't found it.

[kaiserb_uk]

http://www.simhq.com/_technology3/technology_174b.html

[CrashEd]

Coolts, i am MOST interested in what kind of mechanic and sensoric (concept) is used whithin the stick itself. Now, you dont need to open apart a new stick -lol- but if there are any details, manuals or descriptions regards this in the delivery pack, would you mind to share an extract?

 

Edit> Beaten to it!

 

 

BY THE WAY DUDE...5-1.... 5-1 CHRIS HUGHTON IS A GEORDIE!!!!! (Apologies to any Sunderland fans out there. I have some Morrissey records and a bar of soap that might see you through this difficult time)

 

LOL, I thought you might like that result :D I support neither, but it made me laugh!

 

Back on track...

 

I had another look at my throttle this morning and there does seem to be about +/- 1mm of travel on each throttle lever. Hadn't really noticed it before. So you are not alone! Hopefully this is something that will remain constant. As the levers appear to be made of delrin (hard plastic), it could be temperature related...

[MadDogMcQ]

My TMWH is performing SUPERBLY and I can definately say that it's improved my control of the aircraft (and therefore the controlled launching of weapons).

 

Only thing that I DESPERATELY miss is the X52's stick-rudder :-(