How does the cannon destroy tanks?

[Conure]

Hi guys,

 

Probably a bit of a stupid question but I was curious about how the cannon penetrates thick tank armour, and why the targets blow up afterwards. I remember reading in the BS manual that its rockets can penetrate concrete bunkers then explode inside..Do the GAU8s rounds do something similar?

 

Also, are there any slot motion videos of the GAU8s effects on a tank? I've seen some, but it all happens too quickly to see the real damage..

 

If I was in a tank and heard an A10, i'd probably cry..

[ARM505]

1/2mv^2

 

KE penetrators = lots of energy liberated when the round cuts through the metal. This causes unpleasantness for soft things inside the tank, ie humans and equipment. I could use words like 'pyrophoric', and 'depleted uranium', and 'self-sharpening', but I won't. You ought to get several thousand replies out of this question :)

[egorter]

Depleted uranium rounds

[GGTharos]

The answer is: They don't.

 

The GAU-8 cannot penetrate thick armor. For this reason you attack the tank from the rear, where the armor is actually quite thin AND it happens to be where the engine and fuel is usually located. Even if you do not penetrate the rear or top of the turret, you are likening to penetrate the engine grille and perforate it and the fuel tanks. The DU rounds are pyrotic, so they can light fires.

 

The GAU-8 CANNOT penetrate tank front armor at ANY distance.

 

Typically you want to put one 1-sec burst into any vehicle from 1nm away, and a 1-2 sec burst into the rear of a tank from 0.5nm.

 

 

Hi guys,

 

Probably a bit of a stupid question but I was curious about how the cannon penetrates thick tank armour, and why the targets blow up afterwards. I remember reading in the BS manual that its rockets can penetrate concrete bunkers then explode inside..Do the GAU8s rounds do something similar?

 

Also, are there any slot motion videos of the GAU8s effects on a tank? I've seen some, but it all happens too quickly to see the real damage..

 

If I was in a tank and heard an A10, i'd probably cry..

[ARM505]

The DU rounds are pyrotic

 

That sounds vaguely.......porno :)

[GGTharos]

Maybe I should have used 'pyrophoric' ... no, just as bad :D Incendiary?

[Conure]

So, up the rear with my huge pyrotic cannon..Got it!

 

cheers :D

[Squid_DK]

Another bonus fron teh top attack is that pericsopes, antennae, MG's, crosswindsensors and a lot of stowed equipment well get shredded on a gun run, many vehicles also carry some types of ammo on the exterior especially ammo for MG's and extra rounds for the smoke launchers (the exception being units equipped with the GALIX system that is completely an underarmour GL).

 

Staffan

[Crescendo]

There is also a phenomenon called 'spalling' where bits of metal on the internal surface of armour will break and flake away due to mechanical stress produced by shock waves during high energy impacts. The rounds fired need not even penetrate a surface to induce such spalling. If spalling occurs, the bits of metal are often energetic enough to wound crew members and damage mechanical parts as they fly around inside the arnour-protected space.

 

That said, the amount of spalling produced by a round fired from a GAU-8 is probably only going to be a small contributer to the total amount of damage, at least when compared to rounds that properly penetrate. This is because the rounds themselves are quite small, and thus the force they impart is less than that of a typical artillery round (which may in fact be specifically designed to induce and exploit spalling).

 

A tank will is best damaged by achieving as many penetrations as possible and as many spalling events as possible to inflict mechanical damage and start fires (both of which may 'cook off' the tank's ammunition), and to wound the crew. To do this one would attack the tank's rear side where the armour is thinnest (tanks save weight by more heavily armouring areas where they are likely to be attacked, i.e. the front), by attacking the rear side as 'straight on' as possible (so that the rounds don't bounce and deflect away), and at dive angle of 20-30-degrees (so that the rounds cluster tightly together - i.e. a flashlight pointed directly at the ground will have a tight beam, while a flashlight laying on the ground will have a spread out beam).

Edited January 6, 2011 by Crescendo

[GGTharos]

Spalling is largely a post-penetration effect.

[Crescendo]

For DU-rounds, yes.

 

Any spalling produced by DU-rounds will almost entirely be a result of penetration. Non-penetrating DU-rounds may induce a small amount of spalling (if they are lucky), but the effect will certainly be minor.

[159th_Viper]

Hi guys,

 

Probably a bit of a stupid question but I was curious about how the cannon penetrates thick tank armour, and why the targets blow up afterwards. I remember reading in the BS manual that its rockets can penetrate concrete bunkers then explode inside..Do the GAU8s rounds do something similar?

 

Also, are there any slot motion videos of the GAU8s effects on a tank? I've seen some, but it all happens too quickly to see the real damage..

 

If I was in a tank and heard an A10, i'd probably cry..

 

As an example, see in particular slide 6 part 1-7:

 

http://www.markbryson.com/wp-content/uploads/du_guide_600x450.html

[Conure]

This is probably a big ask but is internal spalling modelled on any level?

[egorter]

As an example, see in particular slide 6 part 1-7:

 

http://www.markbryson.com/wp-content/uploads

/du_guide_600x450.html

 

shows account disabled....

[GGTharos]

Nope. It's simply not necessary.

[Crescendo]

GGTharos would know more about it than I, but his comment about it being "simply not necessary" sounds about right. For the purposes of a flight simulator, having a tank damage model with a few parameters such as directional weakness and conditions for a 'hit' such as distance and angle is probably all you need.

 

Necessity aside, it would be nice to have a model that takes into account a tank's engine, radiator, fuel, ammo etc. as well as any spalling, but for DCS: A-10C it would be quite taxing to CPU cycles due to the large amount of rounds being fired. That, and we're not playing a tank simulator. :)

 

WWII online has a pretty robust spalling model, so it's not impossible to do it. It's just a matter of priority and compromise.

[Conure]

Nope. It's simply not necessary.

 

How so? I'm not really sure how modelling works, or is the tanks even have a crew! Does each component have hit points (eg engines/weapons) or do they just blow up when sufficient damage is taken?

 

Edit: Crescendo answered the question perfectly!

[Mike Busutil]

"How does the cannon destroy tanks?"

 

Like this...

 

 

BRRRAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!

 

 

BANG!!!!

[S77th-konkussion]

if I may tag on and be a little more specific- Will a tank in DCS blow up sooner/ and or with fewer rounds if taken on the side/ rear than a frontal assault? It'd be kinda cool to see a tank lose it's track and stop after taking rounds to the side.. greed.. it's a biotch..:D

Edited January 6, 2011 by S77th-konkussion

[GGTharos]

Yes.

[Conure]

As an example, see in particular slide 6 part 1-7:

 

http://www.markbryson.com/wp-content/uploads/du_guide_600x450.html

 

That link is excellent, though I'm surprised there arent sanctions against the use of such a nasty method of killing! Seems the physical rounds only play half the role of killing...

[S77th-konkussion]

Nice.

[159th_Viper]

That link is excellent, though I'm surprised there arent sanctions against the use of such a nasty method of killing! Seems the physical rounds only play half the role of killing...

 

That's the thing - War is never pretty, seldom fair......

 

As an aside, here's the business end of the Anti-tank weapons system utilised when I was serving: Found in the Tank post-penetration - Leaves a wee neat entrance hole and causes devastation inside -

 

 

Don't quote me as it has been a long while, but that penetrator started out as a hollow copper cone with a base diameter of approx 20cm tapering to a point, cone about 2' in length? In any event, ends up as above. Not pretty......

[Conure]

Damn, that is nasty - Was that from an A-10? If so wouldn't it have had dangerous depleted uranium about? War is such a terrible thing...Killing one another seems to absurd in the grand scheme of things, still..Maybe that's a discussion for another place :)

[GGTharos]

No, that's from a HEAT round.