Please help me choose a HOTAS

[ravenone]

I haven't seen a reference to this SimHq article yet so I'll toss this in to the discussion for more perspective.

 

http://simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

 

I'm not certain that I would consider the article "gospel" but some interesting comparison points ... (shrug)

 

Rave~

 

Oh yeah... I am probably the last of the "X45'ers" (I know , I know "geeze Rave really?!?" ...yeah) The stick is old but sturdy ..stable ..and uuuh paid for. I too am trying to decide my next setup.

Edited February 6, 2011 by ravenone
more info...

[bengo]

Nobody mentions the poor old sloppy Cougar I see.

 

Hehehe, no wonder : the original poster was looking

for a worthy HOTAS

:music_whistling::harhar:

[Invisibull]

I haven't seen a reference to this SimHq article yet so I'll toss this in to the discussion for more perspective.

 

http://simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

 

I'm not certain that I would consider the article "gospel" but some interesting comparison points ... (shrug)

 

Rave~

 

Thanks a lot, I'm reading through this now.

[Weaponz248]

Wow so many choices!

 

Anyway I would say straight up go with the Warthog if you have the money. Nothing will probably emerse you more in this game than the WH HOTAS.

 

I have a X-52 that I use for games that rely heavy on rudder as I dont have a rudder pedal yet. I will not use it for DCS due to the lack of Hats. Personal preference but just not going to due it.

 

 

Currently I use a CH setup with a pro throttle and a fighter stick. Best setup I have every owned. The programming for it is either easy or very advance. It all depends on what your level of knowledge is. I prefer easy. Only draw back is the trigger is single stage. Oh well i have gotten over it LOL! You asked about tension on the CH, well its not as stiff as a new X52 but mine also hasnt lost an stiffness so it is now stiffer than my X52. The throttle isnt a dual throttle but still is more than adequate to do the job. Very smooth and for the most part very accurate. The stick is almost an exact replica of the A-10 stick. All the buttons are in the same place for the most part. Its a cheap but very durable setup! I have had mine for about 5 years now and it hasnt lost a step! For both stick and throttle your looking at about 200 USD.

 

Ok so out of your choices I would say WH. But if I were you I would look into the CH line.

 

Good luck man! You can go wrong with any of them!

[casm1128]

CH Products Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. The most accurate and precise flight gear I've ever owned and the software and tech support are top notch.

 

I'd rather fight opponents than fight my setup.

[wickedfastball]

Wicked - do you happen to know how the spring tension on the CH figherstick compares with the x52 pro?

 

Not exactly. I've only handled an x52 on the shelves at Fry's. But compared to the x45 (should be similar-ish) it's much less stiff. Personally I would like it to be a tad stiffer but (like Vapour said) the tradeoff is you get great precision.

 

And like Rave pointed out, that SimHQ article is the only place I've seen a full-spread "shootout" for controllers. Sure, there's nothing like handling the gear yourself (plenty of pun-potential there) but they do give you a nice rundown of the state-of-the-industry at the moment.

 

And to throw in another factor, CH has made an industrial-level A-10 setup (http://www.ch-hangar.com/SiteFiles/Images/product_images/CHProd_IITSEC_2.jpg). It was made for the military/contractors. They loosely hinted at the possibility of bringing it to the consumer side sometime, but that is conjecture for the most part. That being said, if they do start selling it I'll be in line for the first deliveries.

[Ranger79]

I have also had a x52 (non pro) for years. Good bang for the buck, but for a10c and its native hotas mapping, for the TM may be worth the price, has gotten good reviews.

[Spartan1-1]

I've got my x65f trigger mapped via in game controls to initiate PAC and gun trigger. ED seems to have thought that one out in advance as usual. Though I still wish I had a double stage, it works fine without. I just hold about 1-2 MIls below the target. I'm smoking t-72s regularly.

[siege00]

I've had the X65 since September and swear by it. For a desktop stick, I think it would be hard to beat by any other, but people seem to be REALLY passionate and opinionated about using a force-sensing stick vs. a deflection stick. If this is going to bother you, stay away from the X65. For me, it's my first stick of its type and I've owned Saitek and CH products prior to and loved them as well. I've actually never had a problem with any HOTAS that I've used. I considered getting the TM WH, and battle with the idea of it everyday. I can afford it, but to be honest, I'm really not willing to give up my X65. I could see buying the WH, using it for a while, and heading right back to my X65, though I love the switches on the throttle base. Knowing myself though, using that will make me want to have the rest of the switches in the cockpit as well. The fact that I play on a desktop, and the fact that the X65 doesn't deflect makes it perfect. I'm never worried about knocking things over. lol.

 

Now I will say that it took me a month of regular flying to get used to the X65. It was just such a foreign concept to not have the stick deflect, but now I swear by it. You're thinking about banking and the plane is already rolling. :) There are many who say they couldn't play with it because of this reason or that, but I've used it for DCS BS, IL2, A10, and FSX and I still don't think about the tool, I think about the application of the tool, and the X65 now feels completely natural and far more accurate than any other stick I've ever used. However I've never used the WH so I can't comment on that.

 

I'll say this... if you're going to have a mental problem with using a force-sensing stick because "it doesn't feel natural to fly deflection stick airframes with it", don't even bother. If you've got an open mind, and willing to practice with it until you get used to it, give it a shot and you'll likely love it. But if you do give it a shot, it will make it very hard to go back to using a deflection stick, IMHO.

 

Also, if you plan on mounting the WH, then think about mounting the X65. I played with a center (crotch) mounted X65, and from that angle, there is no issue whatsoever with reaching the top hats. For A10, I don't have an issue with the TMS top hat (left one), but reaching the trim top hat (right) requires a shift or release of the stick to get to it. And I have large hands. XL min in gloves.

 

Good luck and I for one would like to hear what you decide and how it works out for you.

 

By the way, I've got full HOTAS function mapped to my X65 and even mapped a couple of the T buttons to Master Arm On/Off. Had to get creative with mapping the rotaries as bands to the boat switch and pinkie switch but it works perfectly now.

Edited February 6, 2011 by siege00

[Teej]

Everyone's different.

 

I went from an X45 to a force-modded Cougar (FCC).

 

Used it for everything...Falcon..Warbirds / Aces High...even played driving/motorcycle games with it. I thought I had surgeon-like precision with it. Joining up with the VTB rejected that hypothesis...especially when I tried leading the team around.

 

I prefer the concept of force input, and my FCC Cougar isn't for sale...but it is sitting on my shelf because I'm much smoother with the Warthog.

[Haukka81]

Haukka:

 

I'd really like to hear exactly why you find the G940 to be way better. Thanks.

 

 

X52pro was floppy like 100 year old di*k, G940 is just so much more tense and way more precise. And i like the button layout too and overall feel is just SO MUCH better than my ex-saitek. :thumbup:

 

 

-edit- and logitechs pedals are better for me than my ex-saitek pedals. (saitek pedals are good but i just feel better with my new one's.)

 

 

 

-haukka81

Edited February 6, 2011 by Haukka81

[Teej]

 

Apologies for hijacking: Teej, what are you using the LEDs for, and can you program them without messing up Plug and Play.

 

Carry on.

 

We're playing with a couple of ideas to see what we like best. This actually got done on the first beta with LED control, and there was an update to the software 2 days later that changed a few things.

 

In short, obviously we (VTB) don't worry about a lot of combat related switchology...the Warthog profile essentially similar to the Cougar profile we've had up on the site for ages. The current implementation has:

 

Left ENG OPER switch pulled back shuts off all LEDs on the throttle. In the NORM position it turns them on. When pushed forward, it indicates whether the flaps, pinky, speedbrake and boat switches are all centered - separate LED for each, and there's a spare but I have an idea on that as well. Not all of the switches are easy to tell if they're in the right position without moving them around, so we thought we might try a quick "push to test" system.

 

The right ENG OPER switch pulled back shuts off the MFD LEDs. Pushed forward it's an "all or nothing" test - similar to the left switch, but you either get 5 greens or no greens.

 

LawnDart and I were going back and forth on which way to code it...so since we had 2 similar switches, I coded both to play with. Heh. This is somewhat inspired by the "push to test" function for testing cockpit lights and such in real aircraft. For us it verifies the profile is running and makes sure the smoke (dogfight), brake, etc. are set properly so nobody has to swear about an improperly set switch once the sortie starts. :D

 

If by "program them without messing up plug and play" you mean the ability to use them without TARGET in DCSA-10...then no. You need to use TARGET to control LEDs. However...for those who want to be able to shut off the LEDs without yanking cords out...you'll be able to run the TARGET GUI and just switch the LEDs on/off manually.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Teej

[TAIPAN_]

I have CH as well, how do you other CH guys cope with lack of first stage trigger? What do you map?

[metalnwood]

I mapped my ch trigger to a new warthog trigger and still got ok money for the CH second hand ;)

[RogueRunner]

Yeah, this is one thing the DCS engine will not allow still, mapping two functions to the same button in game. Would be lovely if you can map everything in the game and not muck about with programming software for the various sticks. Never been my strong point and never will be. I stay away from using the mapping software for any of my joysticks as much as I can.

[nomdeplume]

Yeah, this is one thing the DCS engine will not allow still, mapping two functions to the same button in game.

 

What functions would you want to map to the same button? How would the game know which function you intended to use?

 

I think someone mentioned that there is a re-used keystroke in the default configuration. Think it might've been for the wheel brakes..?

[RogueRunner]

1st and 2nd trigger for example mapped to one button.

[Bushmanni]

I have a CH stick and mapped the first stage trigger to spacebar.

[nomdeplume]

1st and 2nd trigger for example mapped to one button.

 

Well that particular example doesn't matter/make sense, since PAC-2 is enabled when you use the gun trigger.

[wickedfastball]

I have CH as well, how do you other CH guys cope with lack of first stage trigger? What do you map?

 

I mapped PAC-1 to the pinkie button and shifted the standard pinkie functions. Shift is mapped to the outboard button on the front of the throttle. So NWS and frickin' laser are shift-pinkie. Has been a fair trade off for me so far.

 

I recently added zoom (in, out, reset) and TIR freeze to the stick (via shifted buttons). Makes zooming into the HUD for a gun run much simpler to accomplish and has made my shooting more accurate. I know it's not even close to "real" but actually being able to hit your target is much more fun.

[Feed]

The right ENG OPER switch pulled back shuts off the MFD LEDs.

 

Teej, is this a typo or slip of the tongue? Surely TARGET isn't going to give us control over individual *MFD* LEDs, is it (how awesome would that be)?

[Teej]

Each MFD has 2 indicator LEDs - one on either side of the top row of MFD buttons. You can also switch off the backlighting as a whole.

[Teej]

I learned yet again yesterday that no matter how much I love the force mod...especially for flying F-16s...I, personally, flat out fly better with a moving stick. I know it won't be that way for everyone, but it is for me.

 

Not only is my formation work smoother...but it was a real eye-opener when I popped into the F4AF dogfight module for the first time in about 3 years yesterday.

 

I'd have to say that from the late 80s to the late 90s, I think I was pretty good at dogfighting. I lost interest and got into bombing and later SEAD. While playing in some F4AF squads, I dipped my toe back in the dogfighting realm (now with the FCC Cougar) and I both didn't like it and I stunk at it. I'd say back then...even after "practicing" for a while...when I went up against the AI Ace Mig-29 with me in the F-16....I lost probably 28 out of 30 fights. Maybe even 29. Shouldn't be that way. The AI isn't that good.

 

Now...I was working on a Jagstang-like profile for the 'hog. I was about ready for bed and figured I'd go up and play with the -29 for a bit. Went in and flew rings around him 'til I had 3 kills. Thought to myself "Did you put invulnerability on? Leave the AI in rookie?" Nope. Full ace. Flew flat and level 'til I got shot down to verify there wasn't something hosed up. Thought "Huh. that must've been a fluke." Nope. Went 3-0 on several more flights.

 

I know due to lack of practice I'd still get my ass handed to me by the dogfighting crowd...but that was simply an epic difference for me.

[Whippler]

hi! I had x65f, and the stick broke, don't know what caused it. But I got full refund and bought TM warthog, and I got also 8€ back, it was cheaper. How do I reset/set default mapping on DCS?

x65f was nice but it was offcenter, even more so whit lighter force settings. I ques it's not that big problem but using stick buttons while trying to maneuver is hard. When playing whit x65f I kept thinking, when i am giving it full input on stick or not.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Whippler

[nomdeplume]

hi! I had x65f, and the stick broke, don't know what caused it. But I got full refund and bought TM warthog

 

How do you find the WH compared to the X65F?

 

How do I reset/set default mapping on DCS?

 

Look in Config\Scripts\Input\Aircraft\A10C_Real (or similar, can't look at the moment). The configuration files for your particular controllers will have the controller GUID in the filename (long hexadecimal string), while the default files just have normal easy-to-read names.

 

Delete the files with the GUID in them (or move them to another directory, just to be safe) and when you launch the game and go to the controller config, it should revert to the default configuration for your controllers.