Steam release?

[Gimpymoo]

Don't waste your time with IL-2 BUGS: Cliffs of Dover

 

Which verson are you currently running?

 

The latest updates have made the game run very well for many people and the team are working flatout.

[EtherealN]

Either you or Valve are being greedy, which one?

 

I do not see why they would stop you selling the same game for the same amount as Black Shark?

 

Am I right in assuming that you have never managed a multi-jurisdiction, multi-currency, business transaction?

 

Now, I don't know the particulars of what caused this, but just off the top of my head I could for example see the two parties (TFC and Valve) making different currency risk exposure judgements as a big potential roadblock. Considering that the UK is part of the EU, but outside of the Euro zone, this would be my personal guess. But as I said: I'm not privy to real information on that kind of thing, so it's just speculation.

 

Point being: you don't need greed to get problems. All you need is both parties failing to agree on the risks posed by exposure to a given currency, and thus wanting differing leverages.

[Witchking]

Yay! Just purchased...downloading now.

[112th_Rossi]

So is there never going to be a release for the UK over steam?

[Gimpymoo]

I have just sent this email to Eagle:

 

 

Hello,

 

As a UK user, having waited patiently for your game, I am disgusted that you think it is acceptable to not release in the UK yet do release it almost every other country.

 

Is the U.K not considered a worthy territory?

 

WAGS posted this on your official forum:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1180555&postcount=93

 

"Sorry, but we could not come to a pricing agreement with Steam for a UK release."

 

That is a lame excuse.

 

At least look at other options, such as selling Steam product keys so those of us in the UK can purchase a key directly from yourselves and activate on Steam.

 

Although I feel you do not care about us in the UK so expect you will do nothing.

 

Sure, myself and my friend were going to purchase and now cant and I am sure our $120 you wont get wont affect you in any way but I for one will not be purchasing any more of your products, it is a disgrace.

 

Many Thanks.

 

Gimpymoo / James.

 

It is not my intention to have offended anyone so please, nobody take it as such.

 

I just feel somebody, somewhere has made a odd business decision.

 

The option of selling Steam product keys is still a Valid one should the company wish to explore it. It will keep everyone happy.

 

Obviously, I do not know all the facts but if are kept in the dark, what else can we do?

[112th_Rossi]

I'm not using Direct2Drive and I won't be purchasing from the ED site as it's too slow. I guess ED just lost a customer.

[Gimpymoo]

I'm not using Direct2Drive and I won't be purchasing from the ED site as it's too slow. I guess ED just lost a customer.

 

Likewise.

 

Three customers lost then, although not that three will make a difference to them.

[JackB]

Same here, unless it comes to Steam in the UK, I will not be buying this great game.

[112th_Rossi]

Steam is the defacto platform for games releases these days. I can't remember the last time I went to a store to pick up a boxed copy. All the games I play are on steam and I'm not about to change simply because ED are too stubborn to negotiate a price for a UK release. Black Shark is available, whats the difference? Could ED do the right thing and actually explain why this is the case?

[Witchking]

An option is that you can ask a friend in US/canada to buy you a copy on their account and then gift it to you. It should work....unless steam is cruel. :p

[112th_Rossi]

I wouldn't want to risk that.

[winz]

At least look at other options, such as selling Steam product keys so those of us in the UK can purchase a key directly from yourselves and activate on Steam.

They cannot sell steam-keys without agreement with Valve.

[Gimpymoo]

Steam is the defacto platform for games releases these days. I can't remember the last time I went to a store to pick up a boxed copy. All the games I play are on steam and I'm not about to change simply because ED are too stubborn to negotiate a price for a UK release. Black Shark is available, whats the difference? Could ED do the right thing and actually explain why this is the case?

 

I agree 100% with that comment.

 

An option is that you can ask a friend in US/canada to buy you a copy on their account and then gift it to you. It should work....unless steam is cruel. :p

 

That is a valid solution, however it is not an option for everyone and it is hoops we should not be jumping through.

 

The U.K is a big market gaming wise, the arrogance to not release it over here is worrying.

 

What would the reaction be if they did not release in the U.S because they "couldnt come to terms".

 

This is a farce.

[Gimpymoo]

They cannot sell steam-keys without agreement with Valve.

 

Obviously they would need to make that agreement, I am aware of that.

 

The point is, they allready have their SKU on the Steam store so doing so is an option if for whatever reason they are unable to have a U.K storepage on the Steam store.

 

Seeing as the game is being sold on Steam in most other territories, somebody somewhere has a working relationship with Valve so something could be agreed.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Gimpymoo

[sobek]

That is a valid solution, however it is not an option for everyone and it is hoops we should not be jumping through.

 

The U.K is a big market gaming wise, the arrogance to not release it over here is worrying.

 

What would the reaction be if they did not release in the U.S because they "couldnt come to terms".

 

This is a farce.

 

Your frustration is valid, in the absence of hard facts on why ED and Valve could not come to an agreement however, your assumptions towards ED's motives are just a projection of your frustration.

 

Remember that TFC is located in the UK. I'm sure they aren't too glad about the situation either. :noexpression:

[Gimpymoo]

Remember that TFC is located in the UK. I'm sure they aren't too glad about the situation either. :noexpression:

 

That is what makes it more of a farce. The press release about the Steam release came from the U.K, yet they made no mention in that about being available everywhere except the U.K.

 

Thank you for understanding where I am coming from though. You are right, it is very frustrating.

[112th_Rossi]

It's in EDs interest to get this sorted out. You can't leave out a whole market. I would wager that the UK market for games, especially flight sims, is one of the biggest.

 

I hope the frustration in the thread finds its way to someone at ED who can have an influence over this rediculous situation.

[sobek]

That is what makes it more of a farce. The press release about the Steam release came from the U.K, yet they made no mention in that about being available everywhere except the U.K.

 

Thinking back i cannot help but wonder, wasn't it the same for BS? IIRC the Steam launch of BS was subject to the same problems, only later was there an agreement.

[Gimpymoo]

It's in EDs interest to get this sorted out. You can't leave out a whole market. I would wager that the UK market for games, especially flight sims, is one of the biggest.

 

I hope the frustration in the thread finds its way to someone at ED who can have an influence over this rediculous situation.

 

I agree.

 

More so, you cannot leave out an entire market on the biggest digital distribution platform on the planet.

 

Thinking back i cannot help but wonder, wasn't it the same for BS? IIRC the Steam launch of BS was subject to the same problems, only later was there an agreement.

 

I am not sure of that, would be interesting if someone could enlighten us? And if so, what the timescale was for a resolution?

Edited April 23, 2011 by Gimpymoo

[gazcrowbar]

Thinking back i cannot help but wonder, wasn't it the same for BS? IIRC the Steam launch of BS was subject to the same problems, only later was there an agreement.

Yes it was the same:

 

DCS: Black Shark is now available for purchase via Steam at:

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/61000/

 

This version uses standard Steam copy protection, not Starforce.

 

Post 74 is when it was released in the UK, I will let others do the math for how long BS took; not that it will be the same this time.

[EtherealN]

I have just sent this email to Eagle:

 

I don't speak for Eagle, but I'll try to adress your points as I know and see them.

 

Is the U.K not considered a worthy territory?

 

The Fighter Collection, who publishes DCS, is a UK company based at Duxford. I'm certain that they feel their own country is not "worthy".

 

"Sorry, but we could not come to a pricing agreement with Steam for a UK release."

 

That is a lame excuse.

 

No. It's the truth. Do you think either party here wants to make sure the product doesn't sell? Why the heck would they do that?

 

At least look at other options, such as selling Steam product keys so those of us in the UK can purchase a key directly from yourselves and activate on Steam.

 

How do you think TFC would manage to persuade Valve to let them do that? Do you think Valve is some strange charity that just gives away it's bandwidth and server space for free?

 

It is not my intention to have offended anyone so please, nobody take it as such.

 

I am actually a bit offended that you would type something up and even send e-mails about it with so little thought given to it - and to top it all off directly accuse Matt of lying in your face. I'd like to see some substantiation of that.

 

I just feel somebody, somewhere has made a odd business decision.

 

No, they made a business decision that is unfortunate for you, but so what? If my personal guess is actually true (and I don't have a clue if it is) and this is largely a currency issue, just slap your parliament for not joining the euro zone or something. (Though, I'm not in the euro zone, but my territory is under Valve's Euro category.)

 

The option of selling Steam product keys is still a Valid one should the company wish to explore it. It will keep everyone happy.

 

No it isn't. As I said: do you think Valve is a charity? They are in this for the money, just like everyone is.

 

Obviously, I do not know all the facts but if are kept in the dark, what else can we do?

 

My suggestion is: use some common sense and ensure that you know some basic facts about how business transactions are typically handled in the software industry. At least before you start throwing accusations about. ;)

[Gimpymoo]

Many developers sell Steam activate-able product keys directly.

 

I am aware of the business requirements this would involve and well aware Valve are not charity.

 

Please substantiate your own posts before crticising others and do not assume that just because someones views are different to yours that the are inadequate or less informed.

 

You come across as very condescending.

 

Considering this issue does not affect you and your comments do not represent ED, why shake the bee hive?

[Gimpymoo]

No promises, but we may have found a way to allow those in the UK to purchase Black Shark over Steam.

 

Black Shark on Steam is now available for the UK.

 

We try and meet our customer's demands, but sometimes it can not always be done for a variety of reasons, if at all, or in the time scale required.

 

For a little bit of light relief, see

in particular the sentiments from 1.25 mins onwards!

 

What was the problem then?

 

It only took 4 days to resolve.

[EtherealN]

Steam is the defacto platform for games releases these days. I can't remember the last time I went to a store to pick up a boxed copy.

 

The defacto platform for games releases? I'm sure you wouldn't say something like that without having some hard numbers...

 

Steam is the major player in digital delivery in the west, but there are many more players in that market (Impulse, D2D, etc) as well as many companies offering their own digital download services (Eagle Dynamics, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, ActivisionBlizzard etcetera), and some retail chains also have their own digital download services to complement their brick and mortar business.

 

Steam is large, but it's not the only way to sell. Not by a long shot. We who use Steam as our main game shopping platform are still a minority.

 

All the games I play are on steam and I'm not about to change simply because ED are too stubborn to negotiate a price for a UK release. Black Shark is available, whats the difference? Could ED do the right thing and actually explain why this is the case?

 

Just add the non-Steamed installer to your Steam game list. I mean, what is Steam anyhow? It's a content delivery system. Sort of like an electronic UPS. But if you order something and they want to send it by FedEX, do you tell them "sorry, no, I don't want to receive FedEX packages"? :P

 

As for "doing the right thing" and "actually explain": it has already been explained. They failed to come into an agreement about pricing for the UK territory, and therefore they were unable to sign a contract for distribution to that territory. Very very simple. If you think you're going to see someone come here and upload the minutes from the negotiations then you need to think again: I really doubt that's going to happen. In fact, I'm not even certain that it would be legal for them to do so. (There might be confidentiality agreements, as is common in business transactions - even failed ones.)

 

Seriously people, this is not some demon spawned from the netherworlds. I know it's frustrating to not have availability in your territory, but you still have several options for purchase. Talk about industrialized world problems...

[EtherealN]

Many developers sell Steam activate-able product keys directly.

 

Yup. It's called Steamworks, and Steamworks isn't inside DCS: A-10C. Besides, if it was - you would NEED Steam to be able to play the game at all, no options.

 

You come across as very condescending.

 

I'm trying to impress on you the fact that you are being silly, and I take great offense at you saying that Matt is just giving "a lame excuse". Thus I express my opinion.

 

Considering this issue does not affect you and your comments do not represent ED, why shake the bee hive?