Japans earth quake 20110311

[Antartis]

Check video...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8378922/Japan-tsunami-engulfs-everything-in-its-path.html

[Distiler]

Unstoppable O_O

[hassata]

Someone's getting cashiered for not evacuating those fighters.

[bumfire]

2 more nuke reactors in possible meltdown situation as the cooling has failed and pumping in sea water to cool one of them, they are not sure the water is getting to it for some reason, and that reactor is a plutonium/uranium one, much worse than the one that blew up yesterday.

 

Also a new power plant, not fukushima is now causing problems, breaking news as of 14.04gmt No details as of yet except that radiation has been detected at it outside.

Edited March 13, 2011 by bumfire

[kam]

Check video...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8378922/Japan-tsunami-engulfs-everything-in-its-path.html

 

Unbelievable :(

[jpm1]

Check video...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8378922/Japan-tsunami-engulfs-everything-in-its-path.html

 

did you see the cars going in the background :shocking:

[EtherealN]

much worse than the one that blew up yesterday.

 

Correction: it wasn't the reactor that blew up. It was the building, which is a bit like an exterior shell. Take your house, then build another set of walls around your house, then blow those walls out. Didn't make your house blow up.

 

 

The ramifications if the actual reactor blew up would be... Greater. :P

 

What blew up wasn't even part of the containment unit.

[Distiler]

What I don't understand of that walls explosion is, where did come from all that gas? (suposedly water vapour). I mean, nuclear centrals have closed circuits, right? what was that water in contact with before becoming vapour and blowing up the building?

[hassata]

I think the seawater they were pumping in started turning into sizable amounts of hydrogen.

[bumfire]

Correction: it wasn't the reactor that blew up. It was the building, which is a bit like an exterior shell. Take your house, then build another set of walls around your house, then blow those walls out. Didn't make your house blow up.

 

 

The ramifications if the actual reactor blew up would be... Greater. :P

 

What blew up wasn't even part of the containment unit.

 

I know it wasnt the reactor, it was just a figure of speech.

 

Actually, what blew up IS the containment building, the roof and top 1/3rd of it anyway, the core is still intact so they say.

 

That building was hermetically sealed to contain any leakage from the actual reactor inside, hence it being called the containment building, without the buildings roof, any leakage from the reactor can now not be contained inside the plant, it would vent straight outside, with the roof and top third of the building intact, any leak from the reactor would be contained in the building so long as it wasnt a major leak, but that is now not possible since it blew up yesterday.

 

So if the primary containment aka the thing the reactor is built into is breached, it now has no secondary containment to atleast limit the amount of radioactive material escaping into the atmoshpere, admittedly losing the secondary containment isnt as bad as losing the primary, but in this situation when the problem isnt yet under control, its a major concern.

Edited March 13, 2011 by bumfire

[sobek]

I know it wasnt the reactor, it was just a figure of speech.

 

Actually, what blew up IS the containment building, the roof and top 1/3rd of it anyway, the core is still intact so they say.

 

That picture is boulderdash. The primary containment would be the ractor lining itself, secondary is the concrete casket around it. AFAIK none of these have been breached. The explosion was supposedly caused by hydrogen accumulating inside the building during ventilation of the reactor.

Edited March 13, 2011 by sobek

[sobek]

What I don't understand of that walls explosion is, where did come from all that gas? (suposedly water vapour). I mean, nuclear centrals have closed circuits, right? what was that water in contact with before becoming vapour and blowing up the building?

 

That was probably water vapour from inside the reactor. Up to the point where the fuel rods start to melt, this water vapour contains only very short lived isotopes that don't pose a long term problem because they decay in a matter of minutes.

Edited March 13, 2011 by sobek

[Mugenjin]

The part of the building which blew up doesn't serve any containment purpose, so it's wrong to label it secondary containment. Scaremongering at it's best.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Mugenjin

[bumfire]

That picture is boulderdash. The primary containment would be the ractor lining itself, secondary is the concrete casket around it. AFAIK none of these have been breached. The explosion was supposedly caused by hydrogen accumulating inside the building during ventilation of the reactor.

 

The lining that blew off is STILL containment however you look at it, the roof is hermetically sealed so that should their be any escape from the reactor, it would reside in there and be stopped from escaping, it would then be filtered out through filters which would catch the majority of radioactive particles.

 

The reactor itself is still intact granted, but should their be any leakage/escape directly from the reactor vessel and then any leakeage from the huge chunk of concrete that it is confined in, the part that blew off which would of contained it, will not anymore.

 

I cant see the problem why people think it isnt confinement, when it is exactly that and was built as that, ok a few things have to rupture first, the reactor lining and then the primary containment which hasnt as of yet happened, but the top of the building was specifically designed and built to contain any leakage.

 

We all know what the explosion was caused by, well as far as what we are beign told by the japanese. From saturday morning we were told after the explosion that the reactor was safe and the explosion was likely to be hydrogen that had accumalted due to the cooling/venting process, so we know that it isnt a chernobyl style incident, but things can get alot worse, as pumping sea water into a nuke plant is a last resort which will render it unusable and in one of the reactors the 3rd one which is a plutonium/uranium type instead of just uranium, the seawater that they are pumping in as a last resort might not be getting to where it needs to be getting to in order to cool it down, and supposedly BBC news 24 is saying that the fuel rods in the 3rd reactor are showing, not sure if thats confirmed as of yet or not.

 

So the situation is very much not under control and loss of any type of confinement is a bad situation.

 

Containment doesnt need to be concrete and steel metres thick, all it needs to be is steel a few cm's thick and sealed to stop air/particles escaping.

 

Example, a MBT's NBC system, positive air keeping outside air from entering and contaminating the crew, a system similar to that but in reverse.

Edited March 13, 2011 by bumfire

[bumfire]

The part of the building which blew up doesn't serve any containment purpose, so it's wrong to label it secondary containment. Scaremongering at it's best.

 

I think nuclear power station designers/builders would beg to differ with you when you say it doesnt serve any type of containment purpose.

[Antartis]

720p

 

[Sticky]

How do you guys know so much about Nuclear Powerplants?

Edited March 13, 2011 by Sticky

[hassata]

Re difference as compared with Chernobyl:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/japan.nuclear.reactors/

 

Pictures of the devastation:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365546/Japan-earthquake-pictures-Devastation-rescue-workers-fight-fires-search-survivors.html

 

Multiple meltdowns now possible:

 

d3mtnVQT3sw&feature

 

Compilation footage:

 

hAE7GLE_cOc&feature

Edited March 13, 2011 by hassata

[Mustang]

The Shinmoedake Volcano erupts in Southwestern Japan:

 

[sobek]

The reactor itself is still intact granted, but should their be any leakage/escape directly from the reactor vessel and then any leakeage from the huge chunk of concrete that it is confined in, the part that blew off which would of contained it, will not anymore.

 

That part is not much more than a shelter for the loading crane. Anything that would destroy the top of the concrete coffin (so it would leak into this area) would blow that shelter to bits and pieces.

[jpm1]

on french TV , they say that japanese authorities announced that a very large quantity of radioactive particles has been blown up outside the plant (Fukushima) during yesterday explosion . radioactivity is 1000x superior to normal rates (needs confirmation)

Edited March 13, 2011 by jpm1

[bumfire]

That part is not much more than a shelter for the loading crane. Anything that would destroy the top of the concrete coffin (so it would leak into this area) would blow that shelter to bits and pieces.

 

For sure, if an explosion large enough could wreck the concrete containment dome that the reactor is in, then the roof isnt gunna still be there after the explosion, thats a given, look at chernobyl, the reactor had a 2000 tone lid on top of it that got blown off, ok its a completely different design here, but the potential explosive forces are the same and if that happened then the roof wouldnt survive if it was still there and it wouldnt matter if the roof was still there, the game would be up and the roof would do very little to contain unrestricted radioactive release.

 

But the roof isnt built to withstand explosions, the containment dome is, to a certain degree. The roof is just to prevent any leakages from within escaping outside.

 

Leakages can come from anywhere and not necessarily directly from the reactor itself, example a steam pipe or coolant pipe fracture or an accident transferring spent materials, its things like that that the roof is meant for and only for the short term.

 

It is in no way shape or form built to withstand an explosion, as the roof is designed to fall outward and not cave in to save it from damaging the containment dome below it in the event of one.

Edited March 13, 2011 by bumfire

[jpm1]

Fukushima reactor 3 has exploded

[bumfire]

Yup and an incoming Tsunami, you see the explosion on TV and the Tsunami incoming.

 

WTF.

 

This explosion looks worse than the first one as from the pictures I see, it looks to be venting something after the explosion, something that wasnt showing on the explosion on saturday.

 

Fingers crossed that its just a similar explosion to the one on saturday and doesnt cause critical damage.

[jpm1]

Sea level has dropped 5 meters off Fukushima plant , tsunami is imminent

 

edit : grilled