Ugh.... this training is killing me...

[Maulkin]

To be upfront, I know almost nothing about the A-10C or US military aircraft (no, I never flew Falcon). I did pretty good with learning most about the DCS Ka-50 however and that is alot due to the Producer Notes videos on Youtube, the training videos that came with it, and the SimHQ videos. I can see someone doing it the right way.

 

I really like the new implementation of the training as it makes you learn where everything is, but I also hate it because unless you already know where everything is, and what to expect, you might miss-time something and get completely lost. Or get to busy trying to figure something out and miss half of what he says and then get completely lost.

 

I just tried the landing training and everything seems to go well right up to the point when I am following the steerpoint the ATC just gave me (heading 228 for 30 for Batumi), and the instructor is telling me I should expect something to happen on my HSI.... but it never does. From there everything starts to get wonky. I turn towards what I think must me Batumi AF and I see the yellow UP arrow appear next to my HUD but it never changes from that. The instructor mentions that there should be some lights at the AF to give some kind of indication, but that never happens either. Eventually I just land the thing using the old Mark-1 eyeball, but that is rather disatisfying....

 

I really wish Matt had completed all the training videos and posted them on youtube like he did for the engine startup sequence..... That would help ALOT. :)

[Bvoiash]

Yes, videos of the training missions would be nice. Something that I have suggested in another thread as quoted below.

It would be nice if ED posts videos of the training missions of A-10C just like what they have done for Black Shark and make them downloadable to those that have purchased the sim. Because I too at times have wished that I could just jump to certain points of certain training missions to review what I've learned before. Because there were times when I forgot how to do some things in the A-10C, things that I have learned in those missions.

 

Sure I could just look things up in the manual but it would be faster to do so using videos of the training missions if they are available. As I would know roughly where on the timeline of the tutorials that I have done the things that I forgot are explained. Another reason that would make doing so faster is the fact that in those missions everything are visualised and the texts are narrated instead of having to read and go back and forth between the pages where the pictures are and where the texts are.

 

What do you people think? Do post your thoughts if you have any so that ED knows what the community think about what I have suggested.

[StrongHarm]

Sometimes taking a shortcut is the long way home. Take the time to read the manual and you won't be disappointed. At first it seems cumbersome, but once you get a feel for it you'll find that the manual is full of great information that will feed your appetite for this sim (see RTFM in my sig).

 

In preemptive answer to anyone who disputes the import of reading the manual: Each to their own. If you don't gain the the knowledge necessary to fully utilize the systems on the A-10, you're in for a long road to being 50% effective.

 

The training videos and missions are a supplement. The manual satisfies.

[636_Castle]

Remember the training missions are only supplements to the flight manual. I'd advise you to get familiar with what "the little yellow arrow" is, and such, then fly the training missions.

 

I just tried the landing training and everything seems to go well right up to the point when I am following the steerpoint the ATC just gave me (heading 228 for 30 for Batumi), and the instructor is telling me I should expect something to happen on my HSI.... but it never does.

 

Did you first set up your ILS panel? (Power it on, tune your frequency, and set the final approach course?) You'll only notice a lineup on your HSI when on final approach, not when getting vectors to the airport from ATC.

From there everything starts to get wonky. I turn towards what I think must me Batumi AF and I see the yellow UP arrow appear next to my HUD but it never changes from that.

That'd be your AOA indexer. Up arrow means too fast/pitch too low. You want to place your total velocity vector on your HUD (the thing that shows you where you'll hit the ground at) on the threshold, and begin dropping your speed, while at the same time pitching up to keep your TVV on the threshold, until that yellow up arrow turns into a green donut/"o". That'll give you your optimal angle of attack/speed. If it's a down arrow, do the opposite. Increase speed, while pitching down keeping your TVV on the threshold, until you've got your green o. Just remember to keep your velocity vector on the threshold no matter what, and adjust your speed from there, while maintaining glidepath as indicated on the HUD, until you've got it.

The instructor mentions that there should be some lights at the AF to give some kind of indication, but that never happens either. Eventually I just land the thing using the old Mark-1 eyeball, but that is rather disatisfying....

 

You mean the red/white lights to the left at Batumi?

 

Check HERE for an explanation.

Edited March 24, 2011 by 636_Castle

[WarriorX]

Maulkin, remember during the training missions, that you can hit the pause key and re-read a section as long as you like, then when you are comfortable, take it off pause.

 

I did each training mission over, and over, and over until I was comfortable with it.

 

So I encourage you to keep at it, and be patient....it will gel soon.

[Kottara]

Don´t worry, i never flew Falcon also and BS only little.

I´m more a WW2 era prop pilot, but always had a crush on the hog. This is what brought me here.

I had same issues you are having, and i wan´t to say there is no short cut.

Take that flight manual and read it.

After reading do some trainings and repeat them.

When you have something you already know, use that knowledge for having fun and keep the "motor running" by flying some quick missions, where you can use those new things just learned.

Do more study and learning, and always when you have new trick learned, apply that in the missions your flying.

After some time, you will see you start to use full potential of the aircraft to your advantage.

It feels like a big job but after you have learned it, you see how there is no going back to any sim without all these nice little gadgets :D

[Irregular programming]

Just watch a lot of youtube videos and redo them in game as you watch, there are lots of tutorials there.

[Bvoiash]

Sometimes taking a shortcut is the long way home. Take the time to read the manual and you won't be disappointed. At first it seems cumbersome, but once you get a feel for it you'll find that the manual is full of great information that will feed your appetite for this sim (see RTFM in my sig).

 

In preemptive answer to anyone who disputes the import of reading the manual: Each to their own. If you don't gain the the knowledge necessary to fully utilize the systems on the A-10, you're in for a long road to being 50% effective.

 

The training videos and missions are a supplement. The manual satisfies.

 

Hi StrongHarm, I agree with you actually in that no one should think to be able to be proficient in this sim without reading the manual at all or other materials that is not covered by the manual even. I certainly wasn't trying to argue one or the other (in this case the manual or the training missions and videos of them). What I was trying to say is simply that it would be nice if ED also posts videos of the training missions, like what has been done for Black Shark, to provide a way for anyone to quickly review what they have learned before in any of the training missions by being able to quickly jump to certain points of the training missions.

 

Like what StrongHarm said, I also encourage everyone that want to be good at this sim to give the manual a read and other materials that may be relevant as well when they can. Because there are so many things that are not covered in those training missions :).

[tmahring]

Hi

I was also very confused in my first training missions. What really helped me was reading the first few pages of the "Cockpit Controls" section of the manual which describes all hotas commands and also reading the quickstart guide.

Together those enable you to optain a general understanding of how the control concept of the A10 using "Sensors Of Interest" works.

Once you have done so it becomes much easier to follow the training lessons.

[Maulkin]

Remember the training missions are only supplements to the flight manual. I'd advise you to get familiar with what "the little yellow arrow" is, and such, then fly the training missions.

 

 

 

Did you first set up your ILS panel? (Power it on, tune your frequency, and set the final approach course?) You'll only notice a lineup on your HSI when on final approach, not when getting vectors to the airport from ATC.

 

That'd be your AOA indexer. Up arrow means too fast/pitch too low. You want to place your total velocity vector on your HUD (the thing that shows you where you'll hit the ground at) on the threshold, and begin dropping your speed, while at the same time pitching up to keep your TVV on the threshold, until that yellow up arrow turns into a green donut/"o". That'll give you your optimal angle of attack/speed. If it's a down arrow, do the opposite. Increase speed, while pitching down keeping your TVV on the threshold, until you've got your green o. Just remember to keep your velocity vector on the threshold no matter what, and adjust your speed from there, while maintaining glidepath as indicated on the HUD, until you've got it.

 

 

You mean the red/white lights to the left at Batumi?

 

Check HERE for an explanation.

 

Thanks alot guys for your support!

 

I guess my problem is that I am not the type of person that 'learns' from a manual. Once I fully understand something I can 'refer' to a manual just fine, but until I have all the concepts down the manual tends to confuse me. But I will take your advice and look at the landing section to see if it clears things up. In answer to some of your questions:

 

Yes I set the ILS panel to what the CDU told me was the ILS channel for Bakumi and then turned the switch to the 'on' postion.

 

I did know that it was an AOA indexer but had no idea how to handle it or what to do. I just assumed that the up arrow meant I was too low on my approach slope. What you said there makes alot of sense. I have always had trouble understanding " control speed with your pitch, control alt with your throttle" sort fo thing. Hard to get my head around.

 

Yes I never saw the red/white lights turn on at all during the approach and landing.

 

Thanks folks!

[StrongHarm]

Good points. One of my biggest hurdles in the beginning was the HOTAS functions. I created this quick reference card:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=59306

 

I often use the search functions in the manual as well as the forums. There are a lot of great people in this community that take the time to share techniques and clarifications.

 

To put things in perspective though, even with all these great resources I can still think of a few things about the bird that aren't really covered anywhere. I know I still have more to learn, and that makes me happy. What treasure will I uncover this week?!

[WarriorX]

Understanding the concepts of Sensor of Interest (SOI) and Sensor Point of Interest (SPI) and HOTAS control names/fuctions were the important foundation topics for me.

[sofie_59]

Yes you two have helped me a lot of understanding this marvelous sim!

StrongHarms grate posts and WarriorX Tutorial and posts

Thank you guys! :thumbup:

[EvilBivol-1]

As already suggested, it may be helpful to pause the sim to give yourself enough time to carefully read through the instructions. In addition, I would recommend flying the training missions in windowed mode, so that you can keep the flight manual open in another window and use it to reference some of the things being discussed in training. There are some points in the missions (such as the AOA indexer description), where the instructor describes things before you actually use them, because there is not enough time for detailed descriptions when it's time to use the instrument, such as when you are focused on your final approach. For these kinds of situations, it may be good to have the manual handy to reference drawings of symbology and explanations.

 

Also, you may find some of the material linked here helpful, in particular the training videos toward the bottom:

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/DCS:_A10C_Training_Supplements

Edited March 24, 2011 by EvilBivol-1

[tmahring]

In addition, I would recommend flying the training missions in windowed mode, so that you can keep the flight manual open in another window and use it to reference some of the things being discussed in training.

Print it out and bind it to a book man ! Nothing beats holding the thing in your hand and being able to make remarks / look things up while you are flying...

[StrongHarm]

To print the manual cheaply try this

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=59172

[Temphage]

My problem is that... well whenever Boeing or someone comes to tell us about some fancy new technology they'll be putting in our jets, it reads just like the flight manual - a soul-crushing list of bullet points in no real particular order, held together by the flimsiest sliver of relevance. They can sit there and flap their heads all day, it doesn't really matter because you learn almost nothing about how to actually *USE* the equipment until you get a real hands-on.

 

What I need is quick and easy access to questions like 'Why won't this bomb drop' and someone explains 'It says CCIP invalid, because you have your switcher-thinger set to 'Flight Plan', you have to change that', and then I go 'Is there no other way?' and they would say... something because that's exactly the kind of questions I have right now...

[WarriorX]

My problem is that... well whenever Boeing or someone comes to tell us about some fancy new technology they'll be putting in our jets, it reads just like the flight manual - a soul-crushing list of bullet points in no real particular order, held together by the flimsiest sliver of relevance. They can sit there and flap their heads all day, it doesn't really matter because you learn almost nothing about how to actually *USE* the equipment until you get a real hands-on.

 

What I need is quick and easy access to questions like 'Why won't this bomb drop' and someone explains 'It says CCIP invalid, because you have your switcher-thinger set to 'Flight Plan', you have to change that', and then I go 'Is there no other way?' and they would say... something because that's exactly the kind of questions I have right now...

 

This is a High Fidelity Simulator of a A-10C. This is not HAWX....You have to work for it. (But the reward is just as great as the hard work you put in)

 

If switchology does not suit you, I do not know what to tell you. Since this is a cockpit that has almost every switch being functional.

 

You have a forum full of questions and answers at your disposal. If you don't understand an answer as explained, just say so..there are a lot of very helpful people here.

[Helios]

OP has a point that videos with commentary and pointing out relevant visual cues can be a nice learning tool, and makes it a lot easier to get started if entirely unfamiliar with the aircraft and some of the key concepts related to e.g. navigation.

 

However, it is probably worth taking 1-2 hours to speed-read the manual. Not studying it in any great detail (you'd be spending the day), but trying to get a sense of what information is covered. When you're in the sim, there is a chance you might pause and think "hey, I saw something about that" and be able to quickly find it again in the manual.

 

Eventually you will probably want to get through the manual in a little more detail. And it is the deeper level of understanding which comes with that reading which brings the sim to the "next level". However, the manual will probably be a lot easier to study when you've done some flying already.

 

Studying the manual really pays off as an investment for fixed-wing sims overall. I just started with A-10C and have run through most of the training missions, without yet opening the manual. Now don't misunderstand me here - I _am_ going to to through the manual, in great detail. The reason I did not need the manual yet is I have been through the Falcon 4.0 AF manual quite a few times and so far everything covered in training missions can be more or less directly related to concepts that I already know from F4AF. If you think about it, there is probably a lot of knowledge from the Ka-50 you are using already without even thinking about it, such as waypoint navigation.

 

So ... it can be a little pain to dig through the manual, but eventually it's a good kind of pain! And reading up on the next fixed-wing sim will be that much easier.

 

/ Helios

[StrongHarm]

I like to take charge of my own knowledge acquisition. I have asked a lot of questions in the forums, as well as in multiplayer, but the great majority of my knowledge comes from taking the initiative to read the manual, search the manual, and search the forums.

 

I read the manual cover to cover before my first flight. I then went through all the training missions. After that I created custom maps tailored to what I wanted to practice, but with teeth. After putting in a couple hundred hours I reread the manual. It was a long road, but I'm absolutely confident in my ability in the bird. I plan on reading the manual again soon. It really is a good read.

[Temphage]

This is a High Fidelity Simulator of a A-10C. This is not HAWX....You have to work for it. (But the reward is just as great as the hard work you put in)

 

If switchology does not suit you, I do not know what to tell you. Since this is a cockpit that has almost every switch being functional.

 

Completely missed the point. Thanks for implying I'm a retard who wants a dumbed-down arcade XBox experience though.

 

The manual only really just says what the buttons *do*, learning *how to use them* is more about trial and error than anything else. I'm very much aware I could make a thread on every dumb question I have regarding the quagmire of markpoint / steerpoint / waypoint / etc. but my point is that, how much of that should really be necessary? A lot of my problems might be best described as ones that I'm not even really aware are actual problems.

 

I made a series of waypoints. I tied them together into a flightplan. I followed my flightplan, found a target at the end, shot it with the TPod, made what I shot the SPI, and kept getting 'CCIP Invalid', which was irritating (here I thought PRIMARY interest would override my stupid flightplan). So what I had to do was make a markpoint with the TPod, switch to markpoint mode on the CDU, load the last markpoint, then make it the SPI in order to use rockets.

 

What I did kinda worked, except it took way, way more work then it should have. Is that how I'm supposed to do things? Probably not, I'm 100% certain there's a quicker, easier way. Does the manual or training or anything official explain something like that at all? No. In fact, the section on CCIPs doesn't say anything at all about needing ranging data and how to get it, it does a lot of assuming.

 

The navigation training only *barely* covered the basics of using the CDU. It might be enough to get around pre-loaded points, but that was about it. The point of this thread was that the training is confusing and not nearly as complete as it could/should be. The manual says 'things' in it but it's hard to describe reading a list of TPod functions as 'training'. Good example of that is the profiler page on the DSMS - I was trying to find information on GBU-12 profile settings, such as the difference of fusing, the fragmentation settings, and there isn't anything. The *best* could find is that the nose/tail fusing only matters on the bombs with the drag-chutes. Does it matter on anything else? Hell if I know.

 

I admire the fanboy zealotry and taking criticism of anything about the mod personally, but at the same time it seems I'm just as likely to get an answer to me question as I am to be told it's a stupid question and I should quit and go back to playing Ace Combat.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Temphage

[PlainSight]

CompletelyI made a series of waypoints. I tied them together into a flightplan. I followed my flightplan, found a target at the end, shot it with the TPod, made what I shot the SPI, and kept getting 'CCIP Invalid', which was irritating (here I thought PRIMARY interest would override my stupid flightplan). So what I had to do was make a markpoint with the TPod, switch to markpoint mode on the CDU, load the last markpoint, then make it the SPI in order to use rockets.

 

What I did kinda worked, except it took way, way more work then it should have. Is that how I'm supposed to do things? Probably not, I'm 100% certain there's a quicker, easier way. Does the manual or training or anything official explain something like that at all? No. In fact, the section on CCIPs doesn't say anything at all about needing ranging data and how to get it, it does a lot of assuming.

 

Great thing about markpoints, they are already SPI if you are in markpoint mode, so you can quickly toggle between them when attacking. "make SPI" is not necessary. That speeds up maverick deployment on multiple targets, for example. Switch markpoint, slave, track, shoot.

 

EDIT: IMO, more people would read the manual, if it was in printed format, so you could read it while you play. Not everybody owns an Ipad or a secondary laptop. And it should be noted more often to read the manual section before going into training missions.

 

PDF is for quick references, but for deep study, you need a printed book.

Edited March 25, 2011 by PlainSight

[LukeSky]

I really wish Matt had completed all the training videos and posted them on youtube like he did for the engine startup sequence..... That would help ALOT. :)

 

You need to read the manual. This is the only solution. You cannot just take practical course on flying an aircraft. You need to read the manual.

And, you cannot expect that someone will read entirely the manual then explain it to you in 15minutes.

[LukeSky]

So, do you feel it's fair to explain what you took 100 of hours to acquired in about 15 minutes to someone that is just too lazy to take time to read?

In my opinion, if someone is too lazy to take the time to read the manual he does not deserve help.

[latearrival]

So, do you feel it's fair to explain what you took 100 of hours to acquired in about 15 minutes to someone that is just too lazy to take time to read?

In my opinion, if someone is too lazy to take the time to read the manual he does not deserve help.

 

That sounds just a bit harsh. IMHO it's not always about being too lazy to read the manual.

 

For example, by the time I've finished work, got the kids in bed and had dinner/talked to the wife, I have about 90 minutes of time before bed, about 3 nights a week, to fly and read the manual. If I was to attempt to follow StrongHarm's learning technique, it'd take me 5 months to get just 100 hours of study in.

 

What amazes me is not that some of us haven't RTFM back-to-back, but that so many have the time to do so.

 

Thankfully there are so many great people in this community that are willing to share their knowledge with those of us whose PC time is limited.