Buddy lasing for MP

[ralfidude]

Hey guys, i have been looking for this for a while now, and i cant seem to find any youtube videos that show how to buddy lase in multiplayer missions.

 

 

There are many groups in MP missions each group has its own task, but often these groups have to work together to achieve a common goal, one of which is to send target information to other A-10s.

 

 

So i guess what im trying to ask for is, any help in how to send target information to other A-10s even if they are not in your own group, which i assume is "sending your SPI"?

 

Also, second, is, i hear one man can actively lase a target for you, and you can bomb it, and as i was reading up on it, there were much different steps needed to take on that challenge, like being on the same lase number and the like.

 

Any way to get detailed instructions on how to do that, or better yet, a video? Im amazed that none of that has been shown anywhere yet. Would have thought it to be a large part of the Multiplayer gaming.

 

If i get it down and no videos will be up of it yet, il try to make one for the future pilots.

[RIZLAHQ]

+1

[Frederf]

You can send/receive data with messages over SADL. It's the same thing JTAC does to send you a message. Check FM page 319 to see how.

 

However you should be able to use the mini-SPI method even if you aren't in the same group.

 

For buddy lasing the only critical requirements are:

1. Your bomb must be set to code A

2. Buddy laser must be set to code A

3. You must drop the bomb close to where buddy is lasing

 

Bomb codes are set on the INV page of the DSMS. Well in real life they are set on the ground with a screwdriver on the bomb but we can't do that in DCS so DCS lets you change it on the fly.

 

TGP code is set in the TGP>GND>CTRL page and sets which code that TGP will emit.

[Krippz]

You can send/receive data with messages over SADL. It's the same thing JTAC does to send you a message. Check FM page 319 to see how.

 

However you should be able to use the mini-SPI method even if you aren't in the same group.

 

For buddy lasing the only critical requirements are:

1. Your bomb must be set to code A

2. Buddy laser must be set to code A

3. You must drop the bomb close to where buddy is lasing

 

Bomb codes are set on the INV page of the DSMS. Well in real life they are set on the ground with a screwdriver on the bomb but we can't do that in DCS so DCS lets you change it on the fly.

 

TGP code is set in the TGP>GND>CTRL page and sets which code that TGP will emit.

 

Thanks for the quick rundown Fred. Rep inbound.

[ralfidude]

Awesome thank you.

 

So the guy who is dropping the bomb on the target im lazing has to be really close to me you mean? He cant do it from persay another approach, lets say im orbiting the target in a circle keeping it off to me 3oclock and my buddy comes in from the direct opposite side into the target as if coming straight to me.

[GGTharos]

No, the guy who's dropping the bomb has to drop it on the target. The bomb needs to be able to see the laser spot, and it's got quite a narrow view. Realistically, if he's coming from the opposite direction his bomb might not be able to see the laser spot at all depending on the terrain: You might be painting the wall of a building facing you or otherwise your laser spot may be concealed.

[ralfidude]

gotcha, i understand that part. Same problem we face in Project Reality when spotters are lazing from the ground.

[Focha]

I tried to use buddy laser flying online but I wasn't able to pick the laser on the TGP. We had both the same codes, 1866. But I never got a DETECT on the TGP. Also my bombs, after I switch the code to 1866, were not able to track the laser from my aircraft. Strange...

[S77th-konkussion]

We did this last night- it was hardly organized- more like-

 

S77th-SunShine:"I can has lzr point kthx ??"

 

TGP: "No. No chzburger 4-U" (Blame Etherealn for that) ;)

 

So for lack of options available to take out target- we set up a somewhat panicked attack run... His laser was malfunctioning due to likely damage to TGP..

 

I had the target set as SPI- I datalinked him, and he does the same.

 

He lined up and let the bomb go- (I assume in CCRP- as normal) While the bomb was in the air- I spun around to get the target more or less in front of me- fired the laser (latch on) and his bomb hit it squarely.

 

that's it... nothing too fancy to do as far as I can tell..

[ralfidude]

ehh... im waiting for my buddy to get through his training, so we can test this buddy lazing, but it might take a while lol. Really wanna make a tutorial for this, IF we can get it to work.

[Garfieldo]

Hi people, last night I had a problem trying buddy lasing:

 

I made a mission for 2 human-controlled planes where one acts as an AFAC armed with Mavs, the TGP and other target marking equipment, the other as the actual bomber without a TGP (kind of like in the book "Strike Eagle").

 

Everything went perfectly with him sending me coordinates and me dropping 87s, 82s and 38s "blindly" (it was a night mission) onto our targets. Yes, I know, never drop blindly etc etc...

 

When I was down to the GBU-12s on one TER we wanted to try buddy lasing, but the GBUs wouldn't even come off the plane. In some older missions I was able to employ them exactly like a 82 and just CCIP them onto the target, so there should not be any pickle limitations, right?

 

I made several passes on CCRP, CCIP, level, diving etc. and every time I tried to pickle the weapon station in the DSMS would blink white once an then return to its green color, still showing 3 bombs on the TER. There was no notification or warning anywhere. I had not tampered with the weapon profile, so AUTOLASE and stuff like that (which would have the aircraft going "WTF? This guy doesn't know jacksh*t, I am not dropping those bombs!" since I didn't even carry a TGP) would have to be turned off anyway.

I ended up SJETing them because I was close to bingo and had to find the tanker.

Anybody ever encounter this or recognize this behaviour?

 

Sorry I don't provide a track, thank you for your help.

[112th_Rossi]

Ok. Rossi's guide to buddy lasing:

 

1. Agree a laser code.

2. For the bomber, set the laser code on the bomb

3. For the laser, set the laser code on the TGP (via CNTL > L page)

4. The laser pilot finds a target. Marks it as his SPI.

5. Share that SPI with your bomber. Either by:

 

Looking on TAD to see where his SPI is pointing to. Hooking your buddies aircraft and clicking Send. Setting the LSS code on the TGP to the same as your buddies laser code and setting the TGP to Laser Search Mode.

 

6. Once the bomber has the target, set it as SPI (for the bomber)

7. Select your laser guided bombs via DSMS

8. Select CCRP mode via Master Mode Select button

9. Flight toward SPI, straight and level. Watch the bomb fall line. When it drops, hold down the pickle button. Weapon should release when it passes through the circle.

10. Your buddy should lase the target at least 10 to 15 seconds before impact (the time of the impact is shown to on the left of the bombers HUD)

11. Splash one target.

 

If you are using GPS guided munitions you must have full EGI alignment on the ground.

[Garfieldo]

Thanks for your reply.

 

We did exactly what you said but the bomb did not drop. I tried MAN Release (CCIP) in a random place and still no drop. It can't have anything to do with the SPI, or the laser codes. A GBU should drop when delivered in CCRP/CCIP. Period.

 

All other bombs worked fine, so it was not the Master Arm or something like that. Is there anything unique about the GBU-12s that probhibits their drop?

[112th_Rossi]

What GBU was it? 38s are GPS guided, 12s are laser guided.

 

Edit. Sorry just read it was GBU 12...

 

Hmm, you do have it selected on DSMS right ? ;) And master arm on?

[112th_Rossi]

Also, CCIP won't drop (afaik) if there is no CCIP solution. So if your flying straight and level at 15k, it won't drop as there is no impact solution.

 

CCRP and SPI is the only way to go unless you use them as dumb bombs in a dive?

[nomdeplume]

I just tried with an all-LGB loadout (both types) and no TGP, and wasn't able to get them to drop. CCIP or CCRP. I even changed the release profile from optimal to ballistic and that made no difference. In CCRP mode, as the release thingy passes through the other thingy while you're holding the weapon release button, the HUD symbology flashes like it does for a release, but the bomb doesn't actually drop.

 

I don't know if it's intentional that the require a TGP to be equipped to be dropped, but it definitely appears to be the case that they do.

 

Edit: I started from the air with all systems on and no other weapons (to rule out possibility of a conflict between different weapon types, like the Maverick CCRP bug). I also tried turning the TGP switch on in case it was linked to that, but that made no difference. With air starts your master on and gun arm are both on to start with, but I did test-fire the gun just to be sure.

Edited August 25, 2011 by nomdeplume

[Garfieldo]

If I remember it right, you can drop bombs as soon as there is "MAN REL" in the lower left corner of the HUD, which it is when you select CCIP.

 

And yes, the Master Arm was on. Like I said, before and after the failed attempts to drop the 12s, every weapon worked as usual. I have been playing DCSW since the first Beta came out, so I do not think that I made such a blatantly obvious mistake (although, of course, sh*t does happen).

 

EDIT:

@nomdeplume: Thanks for the comfirmation! If a TGP needs to be equipped that would be kind of idiotic, wouldn't it?

 

I think the next thing to try is whether turning the SWITCH for TGP/Laser on without actually having a TGP would work.

 

EDIT2: If the switch doesn't have an effect, we should maybe direct this question to one of the "Wise Ones" around here...

(and have a look at the manual)

Edited August 25, 2011 by Garfieldo

[Garfieldo]

The manual seems to think that every time you employ LGBs you have a TGP equipped as well, there is no definite limitation listed.

[112th_Rossi]

Well stands to reason to launch a LGB you need a laser?

 

Perhaps the arming mechanism is related to the proximity of the laser illumination?

[Garfieldo]

I really doubt it because the buddy lasing for you could be a HMMWV on the ground, starting to lase at 8 seconds before impact. This means the LGBs should be used to being dropped without any laser nearby.

 

And IIRC, in the book "Strike Eagle" pairs of F-15Es dropped LGBs with only one aircraft having a TGP, but both being loaded with LGBs.

[112th_Rossi]

Hmm good point.

 

Maybe it's a saftey thing? A TGP would certainly assist in a visual check of the target. I've never dropped a LGB in CCIP mode as I don't see the point. I would rather be as accurate as possible with the release point in CCRP. Infact, why is CCIP mode even available for LGB units?

Edited August 25, 2011 by 112th_Rossi

[Garfieldo]

Because they behave like freefall bombs when not being guided by a laser.

 

When I get my TGP shot to hell I can still get my sweet revenge by dropping them like 82s - I think it is a pretty useful feature.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Garfieldo

[Eddie]

Track?

 

Can't say I've ever had an issue employing GBU-12/10 buddy lased of otherwise.

[Garfieldo]

Since this is a pretty rare scenario allow me this question: have you ever dropped a GBU10/12 without a TGP on your aircraft?

 

EDIT: (in the newest build, of course)

[Eddie]

Yep. TGP or no TGP, it doesn't matter one jot when it comes to releasing any weapon.