3ds max - edge flow and topology

leafer · May 27, 2011

First thing first, I'm not creating a model for ED sim nor is it airplane related for that matter, so, please help a brother out anyway. :)

I just started 3d modeling and is roughly about 2-3 weeks into it and I am beginning to grasp the fundamental of creating a basic model. However, I badly need some advice on edge flow and topology. I have looked at a bunch of videos and found the tutorials from CG TUTS to be tremendous eye opener, but I still can't properly get the flow or the topology right on my model. I'm creating one of the characters for my cartoon and need help from you. It is supposed to be an exoskeleton/armor thingy.

1. Could you take a look at the pics and tell me how should I organize the flow in general. In the second and third pics you can clearly see the pinch underneath the jaw. It is mirrored so it shows up on the other side as well.

2. The hood and front plate open up as u can see in the 5th pic. My question is how to get them to open and close to a certain degree?

3. Notice in the 1st n 2nd pics the front n rear armor have objects protruding through them? How do I cut those items so they match the contour of the armor?

4. Last but not least. How do I give the armor thickness? Right now they look like they were made from really thin sheet metal. How do I give them uniform thickness?

Thanks!!!

OldCrow · May 27, 2011

I am no expert, but I'll try and give you some pointers on some of your issues.

1. Are you using turbosmooth or meshsmooth? In that case, are the pics of the model after turbosmooth/meshsmooth or is it the base model? If its the base model, I would recommend you to ease up on the polys a bit, and let the turbosmooth/meshsmooth do the smoothing work. Otherwise it looks like you have mostly 4 sided polygons there which is good. For the places where you have 3 or 5 sided polys, try and make them into 4 sided. (This is most important if you are using turbosmooth or meshsmooth ofcorse)

2. Not quite sure what you mean here, but you can animate that part as a separate object, or animate it using a bone structure and a skin modifier. There are different ways to ensure the part to open and close only to certain degrees, but I'm not too familiar with that.

3. Didnt quite understand what you mean here, but you could use boolean to cut objects to a different object, however this will screw up your topology quite a bit. Sometimes, the manual labour gives the best result.

4. Add a shell modifier. This adds a thickness to all your polys following the normal direction. You can set the thickness and which direction the shell should be added.

I don't have a lot of experience modeling characters, so form the little experience I have I would recommend creating a low detail base model with a turbosmooth modifier on top to smooth out the model.

aaron886 · May 27, 2011

Smoothing groups and/or additional polygons around the edge. Should be able to just solve it using smoothing groups.

leafer · May 28, 2011

I had just discovered smoothing groups yesterday and took those pics after I had applied it to the parts. Prior to that my model looked blocky and horrible without turbosmooth. The 5th pic had turbosmooth on that's why it has so many polys.

I want to animate the head thing and the breastplate so they open and close in sequence and only to some degrees. Basically, the head opens first, like a canopy of an airplane, then the breastplate. I guess it might be a little complicated than I had originally though. I'll do more search on that.

I tried cutting them out with boolean but then my model disappeared leaving only the cut parts. I think you have to clone the parts first? However, I found, CG TUTS' vids are awesome, you could Shift+Drag to copy the area where a part is supposed to go on top of it and model the copied part to the desire shape. Problem solved!

Ahh...Shell modifier. Thanks!

Well. In case you are interested, this place has the best 3DS MAX tutorials!

http://cg.tutsplus.com/category/tutorials/autodesk-3d-studio-max/

joey45 · May 28, 2011

Try this thread > http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=688393&postcount=1 < for some other websites and stuff.

RED9R1pper · May 30, 2011

Your topology looks fine....i can only see quads and no tris which is great. Going by the 5th picture, appears you've enabled a turbo smooth or mesh smooth modifier with iteration 1 (increased poly count 4x). If the remaining pics represent the base model, which looks fairly detailed to begin with then you're going to find alleviating the areas with bad polygon flow using turbo or mesh smooth will increase the total poly count dramatically. But since it's not being designed for a game...no need to worry about the polygon count. :smilewink:

You can use smoothing groups to define edges of a model but it won't help to smoothen curved surfaces unless you have sufficient polygon detail to smoothen the sudden changes made in topology.

If you're interested, I created a 4 part video back in 2009 on how i've used mesh smooth to create an aircraft model...maybe it can shed a bit of light on how to maximize the effectiveness and efficiency of mesh smooth.

I'm continuously learning how to best use mesh-smooth and it can be a really tricky b*****d at times....so don't give up!....your doing great :thumbup:

Edited May 30, 2011 by RED9|R1pper

leafer · June 3, 2011

Those vids are exactly what I need, Red9. Thanks a bunch with tons of exclamation marks. :D

The model is coming along quite nicely. I've added a bunch of details and will post a few pics tomorrow.

Pyroflash · June 3, 2011

An alternative way of adding a shell would be to use an extrude modifier on the skin. This will turn your 2d object into a 3d one, and add the applicable verticies so you can move them around to perfect the look.

leafer · June 7, 2011

let me know what you think

leafer · June 7, 2011

An alternative way of adding a shell would be to use an extrude modifier on the skin. This will turn your 2d object into a 3d one, and add the applicable verticies so you can move them around to perfect the look.

yeah. shell, to me, is a lot easier.

OldCrow · June 7, 2011

looks like a fun project, the robot is starting to take shape, looks good :)

May I ask what kind of cartoon you making?

Shaman · June 7, 2011

Oh man, this character looks fun :) I would like to have real-life trashcan modeled after this :) Don't take it offensive. I really mean it could make fun office paper trash can :)

I just admire anyone who does create 3D models professionally or as a hobby. I did it once, but time does not allow me to do tutorials with 3DS MAX as much I wished.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Shaman

RED9R1pper · June 7, 2011

Very nicely done leafer...keep us updated ;)

aaron886 · June 7, 2011

Yes WHAT IS IT? :D

leafer · June 8, 2011

I wrote a script, 7-8 years ago, called Stalker. It's horror sci-fi and the main characters wear a sort of armored exoskelleton thingies. I have never tried to sell the script because I honestly don't know how and the fact that I kept reading it's next to impossible to sell it to hollywood is very discouraging. so, I decided to do the next best thing which is make the darn movie myself. I originally wanted to turn it in to comic but I can't draw, so I gave 3ds max another go and I'm glad I did. Basically, I'll create all the main characters in max because I wouldn't know how to draw them in all the different poses and angles. Then I'll figure out a way to integrate them in to my crappy drawing. My sister already agree to do the voice acting for one of the main characters. :D

shamandgg, no offense taken. :) I would love to have it made into anything really. :D I've always wanted to learn 3d modeling but one look at the UI, especially Maya, and migraine started kicking in, so I gave up. However,the desire to see my script come to life finally overcame the migraine. :D

As for the character, it's an exoskelleton with full head and body armor. The arms and legs will only be lightly armored or, to me, it'll look silly like those big honking armored suits you see all over PC games. And that is the main reason why I had put it aside for so long because I couldn't come up with interesting design for the main characters. I knew I wanted them to look sort of bumbling and the head and the basic shape stayed the same as I envisioned it 7 years ago. The exoskelleton idea came to me from this video --

After I saw it I thought he needed some armor and an FN SCAR. :D

Thank you all for your interest. Red, thanks! I'm actually searching for how to rig and move the joints to see if they'll actually funtion in real life.

Stay tuned...

Edited June 8, 2011 by leafer

leafer · June 22, 2011

some progress

after about 12 days of head banging and hair pulling..

I went through 3-4 different designs while trying to figure out a design that will actually work in real life...I still can't. :D I searched for bionic elbows, knees, etc but couldn't find anything similiar to what I want to do. I wish I am more savy at searching. However, I found a few vids of Raytheon exoskeleton suit in action and the yamaha wearable motorcycle and borrowed their designs for the arms and the hoses.