HARD COPY?

[Maverick]

Pretty lame?

 

I'll tell you what's pretty lame: Paying a pittance for a SIM the calibre of DCS that already includes not one, but three e-manuals and then commenting on the lack of a printed 670+ page manual that is not provided free of charge in the first instance.......

 

Just who do you think was going to foot the bill for a printed manual at release?

 

And by the way, the DVD Retail release was approximately a week or so ago and not six months ;)

 

Has someone seriously read a 670+ page manual sitting in front of a computer? Guess I'm old school, for wishing to read it in bed for example. And no, I don't have an IPad. So no DCS A-10 for me until there is a printed manual available.

 

And don't get me started what I feel about releasing a software as download only at first(OLD school).

[159th_Viper]

Has someone seriously read a 670+ page manual sitting in front of a computer?

 

Seriously?

 

Yes.

 

 

And no, I don't have an IPad...

 

 

Kindle works well.

[sobek]

And don't get me started what I feel about releasing a software as download only at first(OLD school).

 

A download release is the economically most sound solution for ED, offering maximum flexibility and as little money loss to 3rd parties as possible, simultaneous availability around the globe and the fastest possible availability for the customer, which is quite important for a developer that basically works without funding by a producer.

 

If you wan't a DVD, you can still burn one yourself.

 

The vehemence with which some few people still stick to physical media as their primary source for software, especially when the download offers so many advantages, it borders on fundamentalism. :) Beats me...

 

Seriously, it's bad enough having to pay extra to get a printed manual but to have it released six months after the product itself is pretty lame.

 

You lament that the times where sims came with 5kg manuals are gone? Well consider that today a whole developer studio spends years in manpower worth of programming to develop a sim, when 10-15 years ago it was just a few dudes programming possibly for a shorter dev time. Yet sims don't cost significantly more than back then (especially if you take inflation into account).

 

Can you see now that for the same amount of currency you get a lot more working hours worth of software? It shouldn't be too hard to derive why your request for a free 700 page manual seems just a little out of place. ;)

Edited June 11, 2011 by sobek

[EtherealN]

Seriously, it's bad enough having to pay extra to get a printed manual but to have it released six months after the product itself is pretty lame.

 

What does a 600+ page book cost you if you buy it through a book store? At least 10 to 20 dollars. Printing massive manuals costs a LOT of money, and it is also money that the publisher has to pay up-front which introduces liquidity and cashflow issues which further add to the cost. This isn't 10-20 dollars that the TFC/ED shareholders just run gigglyform to the bank with, it's money that would be added to the price to be financially viable at all. Much better to separate it and let those who wants it pay for it.

 

And also, remember that the "10 to 20 dollars" is for paperbacks with HUGE volume. Cost per book increases almost exponentially when you decrease the volume - not only in printing costs but also in handling and warehousing. So respectfully: you are wrong and could profit from some experience in the business.

 

And before you talk about old games and their manuals, you need to realize that ED, even as a "small company" in the market nowadays, is still several times bigger in staff than what was required back then. Games are extremely expensive things to develop, and you need the money for the entire project up-front unless you want to incur massive credit costs.

 

Has someone seriously read a 670+ page manual sitting in front of a computer? Guess I'm old school, for wishing to read it in bed for example. And no, I don't have an IPad. So no DCS A-10 for me until there is a printed manual available.

 

I didn't read it cover-to-cover on the screen, but flip your PDF reader to side-by-side mode and it works pretty much the same as reading a physical item.

 

That said, iPads and similar (don't make the mistake of thinking that iPad is the only contender in that market, there are good alternatives at half the price depending on what you want to do with it) are brilliant for reading manuals and books, and with some 3rd party software that has been released you can even use it as a controller for DCS:A-10C - it'll show your MFD's and other cockpit components and allow you to control them through it. (At the moment only applicable to iPad, but I'm told an Android version might be coming.)

 

Besides: print it yourself. Any printer released in the lasty 10 years can, with a proper PDF viewer, give you double-sided prints. (You basically print every second page, then reinsert the stack upside down and do it again.)

 

And don't get me started what I feel about releasing a software as download only at first(OLD school).

 

Well, I'll tell you a little secret:

Software is... ... ... SOFTWARE. :P

 

The whole thing with distributing software in the form of hardware (DVD's and such) is, in my opinion, completely stupid. The cost to you in storage media for installer files of a game like DCS:A-10C is ~10 cents. If you have an acceptable internet connection, the download itself is done in one to two hours and incurs no cost to you.

 

Compare to the massive delays in handling physical media. Put it like this: the normal delay in preparing physical media for a major release is one to two months, depending of course on whether you have a massive printing facility of your own. (Pricetag being several million dollars.) This means that game release would be delayed by that same time. So sure, if you want a game to be delayed by that time just to have digital and print at the same time... sure. Awesome. You'll not find many friends that way.

 

You haven't lost anything as a print media afficionado through the digital download being released early. It's the people who are with the times that just removed one of the biggest release obstacles to impact this market that profit from their realization that software is software, not hardware.

[Drifter]

Well, I happen to like the physical media (and the box it comes in). Maybe I'm a collector, so..please don't tell me what I should like. I still have my original US Navy Fighters media.. does that make me a fundamentalist?

 

Now, get back to work and get the DVD box out... thank you very much! :music_whistling:

[sobek]

Well, I happen to like the physical media (and the box it comes in). Maybe I'm a collector, so..please don't tell me what I should like. I still have my original US Navy Fighters media.. does that make me a fundamentalist?

 

Not at all, that is about the only valid reason to get a box, IMHO, and as long as you are willing to live with the delay between download and physical medium (which stems from reasons Ethereal explained quite well above), there is nothing wrong with that.

 

The above statements were directed at a complaint about why the download version was released first.

Edited June 12, 2011 by sobek

[bluepilot76]

I am reallly glad I can download the software. I hate having cupboards full of dusty old boxes. I also am really glad I was able to see a certain amount of the genesis of this sim, having joined in the betas somewhere. I feel like I put a little bit into the sim as well, rather than just picking up a completed product from the shop that I expect to work perfectly.

 

I might buy a manual when they come out though. Id like some sort of pilots pack actually; laminated map, 9 line cards, checklist booklet, whatever the pilot walks out with. Piddle pack....

[Drifter]

I am reallly glad I can download the software. I hate having cupboards full of dusty old boxes.

Waiting on a boxed version (IMO) only puts me behind in learning the game. If however, I can't run the game, or I want to sell it... there won't be any question as to whether or not it is licensed copy or illegally downloaded. By that I mean, I would never 'buy' a DVD that was burned by a private seller, regardless of them downloading it from the designers server or not.

 

I might buy a manual when they come out though. Id like some sort of pilots pack actually; laminated map, 9 line cards, checklist booklet, whatever the pilot walks out with. Piddle pack....

Now we are talking! :thumbup: