Buzpilot Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Could not see this in 1.1.0.9 preliminary changelog. Known bug? Can start engines now, without APU Generator switch On. i5 4670 - Sabertooth Z87- GTX Titan - Dell U3011 30" - 2x8GB RAM 1800 - Samsung 840 EVO 512GB SSD - Warthog HOTAS - CH Pro pedals - TrackIR5 - Win7 64bit EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE :thumbup:
MTFDarkEagle Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 The generator only supplies electical power. The engines are started with APU bleed air, which doesn't need electrical power from the APU. 1 Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
mvsgas Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Let me look into it To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Buzpilot Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 The generator only supplies electical power. The engines are started with APU bleed air, which doesn't need electrical power from the APU. So it's basicly possible to to do a normal ramp start without using generator? i5 4670 - Sabertooth Z87- GTX Titan - Dell U3011 30" - 2x8GB RAM 1800 - Samsung 840 EVO 512GB SSD - Warthog HOTAS - CH Pro pedals - TrackIR5 - Win7 64bit EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE :thumbup:
WildFire Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) no hes saying the APU must be running, in order to create the airflow needed to turn the turbines, but you dont necessarily need the electrical power it provides.... I think... Edited June 21, 2011 by WildFire misworded**
MTFDarkEagle Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Not quite. For APU bleed, you just need it to be running. The bleed air, is just.. air.. If you want elec power (and oil cooling for the apu, which is important :D) you have to switch on the generator. The generator is not required for generating bleed air. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Buzpilot Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Just that I forgot to turn generator power switch on, and did a ramp start without notice anything strange, APU oil temperatures not modeled, or just takes too long to heat up? Edited June 21, 2011 by Buzpilot i5 4670 - Sabertooth Z87- GTX Titan - Dell U3011 30" - 2x8GB RAM 1800 - Samsung 840 EVO 512GB SSD - Warthog HOTAS - CH Pro pedals - TrackIR5 - Win7 64bit EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE :thumbup:
REL Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Not quite. For APU bleed, you just need it to be running. The bleed air, is just.. air.. If you want elec power (and oil cooling for the apu, which is important :D) you have to switch on the generator. The generator is not required for generating bleed air. So if I turn the APU on without the APU GEN it will eventually cook itself? Is that really modeled in the Sim? Edited June 21, 2011 by REL
WildFire Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 its worth checking out... for the first time I melted the CICU the other day, I was teaching someone to create cdu entries... that was retarded...
MTFDarkEagle Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Don't know if that's modelled, but yeah that's basically what happens on the real aircraft. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Buzpilot Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Maybe generator power switch should provide power to fuel pumps, atm it only turn on fuel flow dispays. Edited June 21, 2011 by Buzpilot i5 4670 - Sabertooth Z87- GTX Titan - Dell U3011 30" - 2x8GB RAM 1800 - Samsung 840 EVO 512GB SSD - Warthog HOTAS - CH Pro pedals - TrackIR5 - Win7 64bit EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE :thumbup:
MTFDarkEagle Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 The APU generator does oh so much more than that ;) You can power the entire aircraft with it, with the exception of the HYD pressure, which is run via the main engines. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Melcar Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Maybe generator power switch should provide power to fuel pumps, atm it only affect fuel flow dispays. well, I'm not any type of a mechanic -- but if you have no power to your fuel pumps - The APU wouldn't run for lack of fuel. (pretty sure the boost pumps draw power from the Battery).
MTFDarkEagle Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 The APU has it's dedicated fuel pump, which comes online after you switch on the APU start switch, and yes it draws from the battery. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Snoopy Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Looks like you have to have either external power, battery and inverter OR the APU on (see bold print below). It doesn't say specificially to turn the APU GEN on but that's the only way it provides power without an external source. Per the C-1 ENGINE IGNITION SYSTEM. Ignition is supplied by two ignitors in each engine. The ignition ignitors are powered by the AC essential bus and actuated by DC powered relays. The ignitor circuits are protected by two ENG IGNITOR (L/R-1 and L/R-2) circuit breakers. Each circuit breaker protects an ignition circuit in each engine; therefore, to totally disable the ignition circuit to one engine, it is necessary to open both circuit breakers. Engine Ignition Controls. The ignition system is actuated through throttle position (IDLE, core rpm below 56%) or by the IGN function of the engine operate switch (Figure 1-5). Ignition is also provided to both engines while the gun trigger is depressed to the second detent or during activation of stall warning chopped tone, and continues for 1 second after gun trigger release or termination of stall warning. ENGINE START SYSTEM. Engine starts require low pressure air to power the ATS unit mounted on the engine. Air may be obtained from the following sources: • APU • Crossbleed air from an operating engine (85% core rpm minimum) • External pneumatic power unit. Air from any of these sources (Figure 1-6) is ducted through the bleed air shutoff valves to the ATS valves. The throttle must be in IDLE to obtain starter-assisted engine starts. If the throttle is moved above IDLE, the bleed air to the starter will be shut off. The electrical circuits controlling the two ATS valves are interlocked to prevent both valves being opened simultaneously. Insufficient air pressure is available to start both engines simultaneously. After the start is complete, the ATS valve is closed (automatically or manually) to prevent overspeeding of the ATS and the ENG START CYCLE light goes off. During the start, the ECS is shut off automatically to eliminate bleed air drain during the start cycle. Electrical power for starting the engines may be obtained from an external AC power unit, aircraft battery and inverter, or APU generator. The aircraft contains an automatic engine starting system. Automatic engine starting will be initiated when the throttle is moved to IDLE, provided the engine core rpm is below 56%, electrical power and an air source are available. The following events occur: • ATS valve opens, allowing engine to rotate • ECS shutoff valve closes • Both engine bleed air shutoff valves open • Ignition is supplied for a minimum of 30 seconds • Fuel is provided after engine starts to rotate • ATS valve closes within 10 seconds after engine reaches 56% core rpm • ECS valve opens within 10 seconds after engine reaches 56% core rpm • Both engine bleed air shutoff valves close after engine reaches 56% core rpm. The APU has it's dedicated fuel pump, which comes online after you switch on the APU start switch, and yes it draws from the battery. You're correct...also from the C-1 APU SWITCH. The APU switch (Figure 1-5) is a two-position switch, placarded START and OFF. START supplies DC essential bus power to operate the DC fuel pump, open the APU fuel valve, enable APU compartment-cooling, energize the APU starter, and enable the APU Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) gauge and APU tachometer. Edited June 21, 2011 by Snoopy v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
Krippz Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 ... As always Paul you are a wealth of information. I need to get my hands on the C-1 manual :D:book: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22
RogueRunner Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Someone from ED said in another thread that the oil cooler part of the APU is not modelled. With the price of ammunition these days do not expect a warning shot.
Buzpilot Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 Someone from ED said in another thread that the oil cooler part of the APU is not modelled. Then it's not a bug then. Just not needed. i5 4670 - Sabertooth Z87- GTX Titan - Dell U3011 30" - 2x8GB RAM 1800 - Samsung 840 EVO 512GB SSD - Warthog HOTAS - CH Pro pedals - TrackIR5 - Win7 64bit EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE :thumbup:
MTFDarkEagle Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Not modelled to put it correctly. Would be cool if they modelled it :D Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Steel Jaw Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 How do I start the engines with ground power only? "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB, monitor: GIGABYTE M32QC 32" (31.5" Viewable) QHD 2560 x 1440 (2K) 165Hz.
Snoopy Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 You need external air as well and as far as I know that isn't modeled. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
mvsgas Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 How do I start the engines with ground power only? You need one of this To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Depth Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 How do I start the engines with ground power only? Use the ground power to start the APU. Remember to have the inverter on or the igniters won't fire and you'll flood the turbines. Atleast that's what should happen, the emergency procedure is in the flight manual. Has anyone been able to force-flood the turbines? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
hassata Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Would that happen if you try to start the second engine while the Eng-Cycle Light is still on? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Snoopy Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Would that happen if you try to start the second engine while the Eng-Cycle Light is still on? If #1 isn't up and stable it should get hung up. The APU can't produce enough bleed air for both engines to start at the same time. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
Recommended Posts