Offset Page Problem

[DaddySchlich]

Ok, I give. I must be missing something.

 

I'm trying to set a mark/waypoint when I receive the ATC instructions for landing. When I'm given heading and distance info, it would seem easy to set:

 

1. Set an Overhead Mark Point (p. 461 of Manual)

2. Set that Point as the Initial Point on the OFFSET Page (p. 246)

3. Set Heading and Bearing on OFFSET Page.

4. Fly to that Offset Point

 

The problem is that I cannot seem to set Mark Point A from #1, as the Initial Point in #2. I can get Heading and Bearing in #3, so I have the CDU basic method down, I think.

 

What I do in #2 is enter "A" in scratchpad, then hit LSK button right next to the IP entry, and I get CDU Input Err message. I've tried hitting both the 2d and 3d keys on the left side and no joy.

 

What am I missing?

 

Any assistance appreciated.

 

Daddy Schlich

[BlackRazor]

The procedure seems correct, please provide a track so that we can see the problem.

[VFA41_Lion]

I think you have to use the rocker keys on the CDU to switch between types of IPs.

[andyfoot]

I'm still getting to grips with this myself, and there are several very good vids on YouTube to watch, here's a couple to start off with that are quite helpful:

 

 

There are other ways of doing this, like using the TAD. You can Hook your Mark Point and the TAD will display a range and bearing for you. You need to set the AAP switch from "FLT PLN" or "MISSION" to "MARK" to see any Mark points on the TAD, then you cycle through the Mark Points like you normally cycle through Waypoints/Steerpoints. Also, if your TGT pod is SOI, your Mark point will be the point where the pod is pointing at, not your position.

[andyfoot]

OK, just done some learning, consolidation flying and watching vids.

 

Firstly, setting up your Mark Point, I didn't fully appreciate the different ways to set a Mark Point, namely Overhead Mark Point (by pressing "MK" on either the CDU or UFC) which is what you have to do for the Initial Point set at the start of this thread. Then there is the Designated Mark Point - by designating a point by a sensor (TAD, TGT Pod, Mav, HUD TDC) using the TMS Right Short, and finally the Weapons Event - Z Mark Point for the last Weapons Release you conducted. - Up until now I was always using the TMS Short Right .... Dooh!!

 

A few other things/pointers that you may find helpful:

 

1. To set your Initial/Anchor Point (or Offset Point) as a Mark Point - if it is Mark Point A, you have three methods I've found -

 

*You can either enter "A" into the scratchpad and then press the top left LSK (on CDU) or OSB 19 on MCFD when CDU page is up.

 

*You can enter "MRK A" into scratchpad (note there are 2 spaces between MRK and A) and then press the 2nd from top left LSK (on CDU) or OSB 18 on MCFD when CDU page is up.

 

* You can use the CDU rocker to cycle through Steerpoints. (Not sure, but think you may have to be in "Mission" mode on the Steerpoint Selector)

 

*To View the new Mark Point on the TAD (e.g. to check you have set it correctly and it isn't where your TGT Pod is pointing or where the TAD cursor is sitting) you have to select "Mark" on the Steerpoint Selector on the AAP, then cycle through Mark Points until your new one is selected.

 

2. If you want to view the new destination on the TAD, after entering the Bearing and Distance, you have to press the 3rd right hand side LSK (on CDU) or OSB 8 on MCFD when CDU page is up. This has a question mark and number next to it i.e. "?3" and pressing the key will assign a new Steerpoint at the Bearing/Distance from the Offset that is displayed on your CDU. To view this on the TAD, you will have to switch the Steerpoint selector on the AAP to Mission and cycle through to the Steerpoint you have just created (MSN 003 in this case), this will display only the Steerpoint selected, with no other Steerpoints/Markpoints visible.

 

3. If you want to have this new Steerpoint on view with your Flightplan, it's quite straightforward. Firstly Select "FPM" on the CDU, press the right hand side LSK next to your current Flight Plan (normally this will be the top LSK) which is shown as active with an asterisk next to the arrow.

 

This will bring up your Flight Plan, showing up to three Steerpoints on each page. In our case, we need to add Steerpoint 3 onto our Flight Plan. Enter "3" into the scratchpad and press the left hand LSK which should be showing "[]03 (NEXT)" and should change to something like "[]03 3 MSN003"

 

Make sure the Steerpoint selector is set to "FLT PLAN", and you should be able to see the new Steerpoint added onto your Flight Plan display.

 

4. Don't forget that changing settings on the Up Front Controller (UFC) will override switch settings on the AAP, and vice versa. For example, your AAP is selected to "MISSION" but since you set that you press "FUNC" and "7" (FPLAN) on the UFC - the TAD will show your Flightplan. In other words, when you need to check that you are in a particular mode for the Steerpoint, it is not enough to just look at your Steerpoint Selector on the AAP.

Edited July 8, 2011 by andyfoot

[BBQ]

As far as utilizing mark points when getting the final approach fix from ATC--sort of ruins the fun I guess--but it's always 10miles out on the runway heading. If you have your tacan tuned to the airport, just wait until the range on the HSI says 10miles, put RMI needle #1 at the 9 o'clock position on the HSI and keep it there. You'll basically be flying a circle, or arc, around the airport. All you have to do is wait until you intercept the runway heading, then turn towards the airport. At that point, you'll be precisely where ATC directed you.

[DaddySchlich]

Thanks to both andyfoot and BBQ for you help. What I was doing wrong was pressing the 2d and 3d LSK after just entering "A" in the scratchpad. Hadn't tried 1st LSK.

 

andyfoot, thanks for all the detailed steps on the possible ways for incorporating the offset waypoint into the nav system. Not the easiest thing in the world to get right, but I understand them.

 

BBQ - agreed, it does sort of ruin the fun! But it works. Thanks for the tip!!

[Fish]

.................BBQ - agreed, it does sort of ruin the fun! But it works. Thanks for the tip!!

 

There's really no substitute for good navigation. Check out what BBQ is saying in

[DaddySchlich]

As a follow-on to andyfoot's message, here's my take at the "hard way," that is, putting an offset waypoint into the flight plan after getting ATC instructions for landing. I think this should work. Obviously, use of the TACAN method is simpler if the airbase has a TACAN.

 

Hopefully, this will be helpful for those interested in use of the Offset Page.

 

Daddy Schlich

 

I think that virtually all the steps can be input via the CDU, or via the UFC and RMFCD if you have the CDU Repeater on:

 

1. Get heading and distance from ATC

2. Create Overhead Mark Point at current location. note Mark Point letter.

3. Bring up Offset Page

4. Type in Mark Point letter (e.g., A) in scratchpad, and hit +-0 button - which will establish Mark Point as the Initial Point for Offset.

5. Enter Heading and Distance given by ATC (enter distance in three digits - probably have to start with an initial zero), and hit button to the right of MH/DIS on CDU.

6. Hit button next to ?x on the right side of CDU to enter offset point was waypoint x (it appears to be next numeral after last waypoint.)

7. Change AAP switch to Mission to confirm new waypoint by cycling through them.

8. Change AAP switch to Flight Plan

9. Call up FPM page.

10. Select current Flight Plan from list by hitting button on right side

11. Enter number of offset waypoint in scratchpad - click on left button next to the Waypoint you're currently heading toward (should be marked with asterisk). It will substitute offset waypoint for that waypoint.

12. Confirm that offset waypoint is in Flight Plan on TAD, and is current Steerpoint. Cycle through waypoints to make it Steerpoint, if necessary.

[DaddySchlich]

Not sure what you mean by Selected Course Steering. But if you mean Autopilot/Path, you could do that. But I think the question has been how do you judge distance in that case.

 

That's why I was trying to figure out how to set a new waypoint consistent with the ATC's direction.

[DaddySchlich]

Just wanted to add this alternative:

 

1. Get ATC instructions

2. Make Overhead Mark Point via CDU or UFC

3. change AAP to Mark - so you switched to Mark Points

4. cycle to relevant Mark Point, if not there already, and fly at heading directed by ATC.

5. follow increasing distance from Mark Point, as displayed on HUD, or on HSI

6. turn to runway heading when you hit the distance specified by ATC, changing AAP to Flight Plan and picking WP at airfield.

 

So, now there are at least 3 ways on this thread to respond to ATC directions.

[BBQ]

As a follow-on to andyfoot's message, here's my take at the "hard way," that is, putting an offset waypoint into the flight plan after getting ATC instructions for landing. I think this should work. Obviously, use of the TACAN method is simpler if the airbase has a TACAN.

 

Hopefully, this will be helpful for those interested in use of the Offset Page.

 

Daddy Schlich

 

I think that virtually all the steps can be input via the CDU, or via the UFC and RMFCD if you have the CDU Repeater on:

 

1. Get heading and distance from ATC

2. Create Overhead Mark Point at current location. note Mark Point letter.

3. Bring up Offset Page

4. Type in Mark Point letter (e.g., A) in scratchpad, and hit +-0 button - which will establish Mark Point as the Initial Point for Offset.

5. Enter Heading and Distance given by ATC (enter distance in three digits - probably have to start with an initial zero), and hit button to the right of MH/DIS on CDU.

6. Hit button next to ?x on the right side of CDU to enter offset point was waypoint x (it appears to be next numeral after last waypoint.)

7. Change AAP switch to Mission to confirm new waypoint by cycling through them.

8. Change AAP switch to Flight Plan

9. Call up FPM page.

10. Select current Flight Plan from list by hitting button on right side

11. Enter number of offset waypoint in scratchpad - click on left button next to the Waypoint you're currently heading toward (should be marked with asterisk). It will substitute offset waypoint for that waypoint.

12. Confirm that offset waypoint is in Flight Plan on TAD, and is current Steerpoint. Cycle through waypoints to make it Steerpoint, if necessary.

 

If the airbase doesn't have a tacan, use the last waypoint, or initial position waypoint, or search CDU for airport name waypoint. Works the same as the TACAN--just choose "Steerpoint" instead of TACAN button on nav panel.

[andyfoot]

Airport Steerpoints are listed in the Divert page accessed from the Nav page (on UFC press FUNC then NAV, then select DIVERT) bringing up this page will list the nearest bunch of airfields, and pressing the left hand side LSB will set it as a Steerpoint, as well as show relevant radio/ILS/TACAN frequencies.

[DaddySchlich]

Thanks for the Manual reference for Selected Course Steering. Had not noticed that.

 

Similar to using Overhead Mark Point.