awdrgyjo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Is it possible to do an ILS approach in BS, the HSI is equipped for it but there does not seem to be any reference in the manual, thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogusheadbox Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 My question to you is.... why would there be a need to DO an ILS in a helicpter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 If I remember correctly, there is no ILS equipment in the KA-50. You can navigate using NDB and follow procedures in manual for landing in bad weather (IFR) Alternatively, you can use the ABRIS to guide you. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogusheadbox Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Instrument proceedures are based on categories and those categories are based on approach speeds. Yes you can do an instrument approach in a helo, but why would you need to. You know where the beacon is, you know the MSA you can go down to before go-around. If you are really in a pinch, you can fly directly to airport or beacon and hover down until MSA. We have instrument approaches for other aircraft as they can't hover so need a protected track to which they can safely approach the airfield in forward motion down to applicable minimas. Here is another example (showing my age here as i am taking this from my old PPL days so lets hope i get it right), lets take VFR flight for fixed wing and helicopters under 3,000 feet, class g airspace. For a fixed wing flying under 140 knots its a minimum of 1500m visability clear of cloud, in sight of surface. For a helo it was just clear of cloud in sight of surface. There is no need for a minimum distance to visability due to the reason that a helicopter can hover or move at such low speeds that all it needs is to be able to see the ground to operate safely. Ok, i hear you asking... You mentioned VFR, we are talking about instrument approches. I am not IFR rated helo, but the same would apply. You can fly at such a low speed that you can descend in a safe area to minimas (well until you can see the ground) then carry on in virtually 0 forward visability. I am IFR rated for fixed wing aircraft and i can't for the life of me see the need for wasting fuel on an insturment approach, be it vectored or proceedural in a helo when they can move at such low speeds and hover. Unless of course the airfield in question is so full of hazards, that a instrument approach is needed Edited July 18, 2011 by bogusheadbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdrgyjo Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 My question to you is.... why would there be a need to DO an ILS in a helicpter? Although helicopters generally only fly in VFR conditions, it is mandatary to demonstrate an ILS approach in a commercial GFT incase a situation presents itself, however, I don't know if this applies in military operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdrgyjo Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Engine faliure, finding the airfield and then desending in a hover is not a good idea, even in a twin engine helicopter, following the glide slope will keep you clear of structures, and maintain forward speed for autorotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogusheadbox Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Engine faliure, finding the airfield and then desending in a hover is not a good idea, even in a twin engine helicopter, following the glide slope will keep you clear of structures, and maintain forward speed for autorotation. Ok, so in respect of keeping a minimum speed, needed for either engine failure or to keep from transitioning to hover where contolability issies may be in effect.... That i can understand. However, how common are instrument approaches flown by helicopters. To be brutally honest, with GPS with moving map, rad alt, auto pilot, flight director (and without emergencies dictating the necesity for forward flight) I can't really see the need to fly an instrument approach in DCS. Especially not when you think about cat 1 ops which give a decent altitude where you are expected to go visual anyway. Edited July 18, 2011 by bogusheadbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdrgyjo Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Ok, so in respect of keeping a minimum speed, needed for either engine failure or to keep from transitioning to hover where contolability issies may be in effect.... That i can understand. However, how common are instrument approaches flown by helicopters. To be brutally honest, with GPS with moving map, rad alt, auto pilot, flight director (and without emergencies dictating the necesity for forward flight) I can't really see the need to fly an instrument approach in DCS. Especially not when you think about cat 1 ops which give a decent altitude where you are expected to go visual anyway. Good point, and thanks for all the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigoMF_BR Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I like training IFR flights in BS. Isn´t a requiry to fly at BS, but is very fun. I´m very new at BS. I bought them several months ago, but my privious PC was much slow for him. Will be great have VAC and IAC charts for de AD´s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heli Shed Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm................ OP. No you can't. that answer your question? There's enough red herrings in this post to open a fish market. ;-) 'T' Come pay us a visit on YouTube - search for HELI SHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogusheadbox Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Well please define these red herrings. I am honestly interested at how often / needed are instrument approaches with helicopters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigoMF_BR Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Here, in Brazil, the weather are most part of the time above than good... :) Very few heli pilots are IFR qualified. Only off-shore pilots flew IFR at all time in route. At SBME, at this time the main AD´s for off-shore operations in the country, exists IFR IAC only for helicopters. http://www.aisweb.aer.mil.br/_inc/carta-download.cfm?carta=E303CDED-D32C-4630-B26A47A009816C0C&d=tela How much using IFR operations at this AD ? Some between 30-40% of flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdrgyjo Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 For what its worth Bristow helicopters in the UK run an academy that specialises in instrument rated courses for rotary wing, a minimum of 15 hours must be completed before the practical flight exam, this must include ILS approach procedures, they also do conversions from CAA to FAA, so I assume this applies in the states as well, where they also run an academy. Bristow do a lot of flights ferrying oil rig employes to and from their platforms, it would be impractical in this location to fly in VFR conditions, so ILS approaches are often put into practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Among private/recreational helicopter pilots, an IFR rating is uncommon. Among commercial helicopter pilots...well...I don't know any without an IFR rating. Where I work (commercial), all of our helo pilots are IFR certified and performing instrument approaches are common. Many light helicopters are not rated for IFR flight, so that has a lot to do with it, but most medium/large helos are IFR certified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigoMF_BR Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Qualified or not at IFR conditions for heli operations it´s a very hot debate in Brazil. Most part of ours helicopters comercial pilots flew only VFR. Tha ANAC, our FAA, don´t give IFR certifications for single engine helicopter. Why ? I don´t know!! Qualifications with A109( the smallest double engine more common here) is very expensive for most part of students inclusive me! I really misses when the military made the civilian aviation regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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