Is there any IFF available in HMS mode?

[Asterix28573]

Hi,

Just wondering how do you perform IFF check when using HMS mode in Russian planes. I mean, if you just discover a plane "around" you unexpectedly ¿how do you check if it's a hostile trying to sneak up on you or just an inoffensive friendly following his route?

 

I ask because yesterday night I shot down a pair of friendlies in that situation and I'll be glad NOT to repeat it :redface: ...

 

Best regards,

Asterix

[pappavis]

Yes, but you need to activate the radar, by pressing the I-key. The default is that Schlem uses EOS for tracking. EOS is incapable of IFF.

[Asterix28573]

Yes, but you need to activate the radar, by pressing the I-key. The default is that Schlem uses EOS for tracking. EOS is incapable of IFF.

 

Ok, thank you. I assume that this will trigger some kind or warning in his RWR, won't it?

 

Cheers,

Asterix

[pappavis]

Ok, thank you. I assume that this will trigger some kind or warning in his RWR, won't it?

 

Cheers,

Asterix

 

Yep, activating your radar will trigger its RWR. When you have a target locked with EOS you could activate the radar for a (split)second to see if its friend or foe. If your flying against AI's then even the slightest radar spike will trigger agressive maneuvers from enemy planes.

[Asterix28573]

Yep, activating your radar will trigger its RWR. When you have a target locked with EOS you could activate the radar for a (split)second to see if its friend or foe. If your flying against AI's then even the slightest radar spike will trigger agressive maneuvers from enemy planes.

 

Ok, but then ¿what will happen if I'm using HMS and the target is outside radar gimbals (this is the good part of HMS, after all...)? Will IFF work as usual or will have to point my nose to the target to get a proper IFF response?

 

There's a thing I don't understand about how IFF seems to work in Lockon: AFAIF IFF is implemented IRL using some kind of encoded radio signal (but NOT radar) sent to the remote plane. This signal contains the interrogated plane's position/speed/whatever, and when that A/C receives the IFF signal it checks that data against himself, and if they match then he answers with a "Hey, this is me and I'm your friend!" answer.

 

¿Why is then radar necessary in LockOn for a proper IFF interrogation? In theory it should be needed, as fighter planes have dedicated antennas for it so it could be used also in EOS mode or even HMS (although positional info of the targeted plane from the lastest is probably less precise). ¿Is LockOn IFF implementation plain wrong or I'm just missing something about the whole system...?

 

Just being curious...

 

Asterix

[169th_Crusty]

Yes, it`s wrong. And I know that some in ED know very well how the basic

IFF works (transponder modes). Olgerd, for instance knows his F-16s very

well :) and how the AIFF system works in certain Blocks (like MLU, 52).

...in Russian planes, it`s very similar.

[GGTharos]

Who said the RWR can't detect an IFF interrogation of your aircraft though?

[169th_Crusty]

Who said the RWR can't detect an IFF interrogation of your aircraft though?

Hmmm, ... I know about the "light" in the cockpit that comes on when the

some interrogator scans you and finds out that you do not comply

[GGTharos]

We'er not talking about the 'light' though ... ;) But either way, yeah - it's detectable, and even if ED's implementation isn't completely correct, it's sort of ok.

[169th_Crusty]

Yep, that's very probable for sure, I've never said the opposite. I was just wondering why in LOMAC radar must be used for IFF, when maybe (and that's what I was asking indeed ;)) in RL is not needed.

 

Cheers,

Asterix

 

Well, as you read through all the threads in this forum - many things are

not on "RL" level but they are kinda OK as GGTharos said.

[Asterix28573]

Well, as you read through all the threads in this forum - many things are

not on "RL" level but they are kinda OK as GGTharos said.

 

Yep, I supposed so. No prob for me, if this is the IFF game implementation then let's deal with it.

 

So (going back to the original question): I assume that in HMS I must point my radar to the target and activate it shortly so I can get an IFF response from him. If I don't get the 'F' in the HUD then it's a hostile, isn't it?

 

And I suppose also that if the target is outside my radar gimbals then I won't get any IFF information (which dangerously equals to 'hostile'...), isnt' it?

 

I'd just want to clarify this to avoid more mistakes... :)

 

Best regards,

Asterix

[GGTharos]

Your radar's gimbals probably match or exceed those of the EOS ... be especially careful about pulling the nose over the target, as the gimbal of the EOS facing 'down' is only 15 deg ... if your EOS loses track, the radar fires ...

[Asterix28573]

Your radar's gimbals probably match or exceed those of the EOS ... be especially careful about pulling the nose over the target, as the gimbal of the EOS facing 'down' is only 15 deg ... if your EOS loses track, the radar fires ...

 

Yep, but I was asking specifically for HMS mode, which takes profit of extended gimbals of the R-73 seeker. ¿What happens if the target is outside both's gimbals (radar / EOS)? ¿How I command IFF in this case? I assume that I must point the nose to it so the radar covers it, isn't it?

 

Regards,

Asterix

[GGTharos]

Hms mode still uses your sensors. The R-73's gimbals do NOT exceed your sensor gimal limits.

 

If the target is outside radar gimbal limits, you cannot command IFF. If the target is outside sensor limits, you lose the lock.

 

The radar covers 60-70 degrees to either side (At least I think it's 70, IIRC). THose are some pretty wide gimbals.

[Rastus]

Actually with the Helmet mounted sight you will not give a warning to your opponent if, before locking you only see a "T" on the left of your hud (no "P"). after locking your target (with heat missiles selected) you can press the "I" button for IFF without any warning. Look for the "F" (friend) on the left HUD.

 

EOS mode works simmilar, you must be sure to have IR missiles selected before locking & IFF.

 

Best thing is to find a friend online & practice against each other, letting each other know when you hear a warning.

 

Do NOT fire any missile without knowing for sure who you are firing against.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

In my trusty Su-27, I press "C" to swap to cannon briefly. In a similar manner to what Rastus said, it produces an IFF response F for friend (C if Russian HUD). I use it rather than pressing "I" because:-

 

1) I never actually knew you could press "I" in HMS mode to get to radar :icon_redf - learn something new everyday on these forums.

2) You just press the same key ("C") again to toggle cannon to off and you are ready for the missile shot, and remain locked on with EOS.

[Prophet_169th]

But using guns mode produces lock warning.

 

In HMTD mode, if you lock EOS without radar on, then turn Radar ON, no lock warning is given.

[britgliderpilot]

But using guns mode produces lock warning.

 

In HMTD mode, if you lock EOS without radar on, then turn Radar ON, no lock warning is given.

 

This should not be the case, and would be an interesting bug if it was.

 

I think what is being suggested is switching to radar for a split second - although there will be a lock tone, it'll be very short and the bandit won't quite be able to figure it out. Hopefully :p

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

I think what is being suggested is switching to radar for a split second...

 

Yep what B_G_P said, press "C", press "C" again takes only a second - bang, bang! Such short a warning, the bad guy may never notice, then take the R-73 shot, and he's toast.

 

Also, my experience with offline AI targets is that when in HMS, I can use the cannon technique "C" to ID them and they take no evasive action. Use radar "I" and they start jinking pretty much straight away....

[GGTharos]

The warning stays on the rwr for 6 seconds ;)

[britgliderpilot]

The warning stays on the rwr for 6 seconds ;)

 

Hmmn.

 

 

Well if he's friendly, it doesn't matter, it's just embarassing.

 

If he's a bad guy . . . hmmn.

 

 

One . . . . . two . . . . three . . . . fo-BAM!

 

Nah, I still don't think he's got enough time to react if you're WVR :p

[Prophet_169th]

This should not be the case, and would be an interesting bug if it was.

 

I think what is being suggested is switching to radar for a split second - although there will be a lock tone, it'll be very short and the bandit won't quite be able to figure it out. Hopefully :p

 

 

Yup, we have tested this many times. I have made tracks at EDs request. The only missle we didnt test was an ER.

 

Most of the time though, its hard to get close enough to find someone HMTD to use this bug.

[Asterix28573]

In my trusty Su-27, I press "C" to swap to cannon briefly. In a similar manner to what Rastus said, it produces an IFF response F for friend (C if Russian HUD). I use it rather than pressing "I" because:-

 

1) I never actually knew you could press "I" in HMS mode to get to radar :icon_redf - learn something new everyday on these forums.

2) You just press the same key ("C") again to toggle cannon to off and you are ready for the missile shot, and remain locked on with EOS.

 

I though the 'C' technique didn't work any more with FC. I seem to remember that one of the things stated in the readme file for 1.1 was that the use of cannon for IFF had been disabled because it was considered indeed a bug.

 

I'm currently at work so I can't test if it really still works. ¿Could anybody confirm if this is the case and if so which are the RWR reactions?

 

Cheers,

Asterix

[Vosxod]

Yup, we have tested this many times. I have made tracks at EDs request. The only missle we didnt test was an ER.

 

Most of the time though, its hard to get close enough to find someone HMTD to use this bug.

Really??? I have got to test it! What does it have to do with missile type?

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

You could be correct Asterix, I only have v1.02 so I can't say.....