Technique for sustained TGP vision

[bopok]

I've put a little bit of time into this sim now and I would like to get some opinions or critiques on something that I run into almost every mission.

 

I'm pretty solid on receiving JTAC information and finding the initial targets; generally a column of tanks. I then set the SPI slew the MAV and ingress. On a good day I can get 2-3 mavs off before I need to egress. Now here is the problem I always have. After egressing I bank the wings and put the plane on alt only hold auto-pilot so that I am essentially just doing circles. While in the pattern I use my TGP to find the remaining tanks and just as I'm about to set SPI to an undamaged tank my own plane gets in the way and blocks the view of the TGP. The tanks keep moving so once the plane is out of the way I have to start looking all over and just as I find them, you guessed it the plane gets in the way again.

 

My questions are: How do you guys do that? Am I just doing that wrong/ too slow finding the new targets? or is that just the name of the game and I should just learn to live with it?

 

Thanks in advance.

[menendezdiego]

It is just another level of SA (situational awareness) that you have to be...aware of to be frank.

 

Always know where your Targeting Pod is, where it is looking, and your reference to the target.

 

Keep these things in mind when orbiting.

[159th_Viper]

The moment you lose SA you're in trouble. Extend approx 20nm, ID, sort targets and re-engage.

[WildBillKelsoe]

 

My questions are: How do you guys do that? Am I just doing that wrong/ too slow finding the new targets? or is that just the name of the game and I should just learn to live with it?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

No its not the name of the game... All you gotta do, is to know where the TGP is located (right or left wing), and bank that wing <10 degrees (on ADI never touch the first tick marks to the vertical) to the target. Essentially, it's a cone you draw with your aircraft, and the more banked your aircraft is, and the more it is near the ground, the less likely you'll get a sustained image... I usually perform an orbit 10-15 klicks away from target, at 8000 feet, provided I get a constant range on the TGP.. I'll show you..

[bopok]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies.

 

It appears I was banking way too much (>30 degrees) and that was exacerbated by being pretty low 5-6k feet.

[Eddie]

In addition to bank angle, your altitude is also a factor in the pod's visibilty. The higher you are, the larger the area on the ground the pod can see without masking. Sit yourself up at 25000ft+ and your can see plenty, even at 30 degress of bank.

[bopok]

Ya, I guess I'm also impatient. I don't egress nearly long enough to get to 15k feet let alone 25k. Gotta get back in and get the rest of that column.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Here is a 17 min constant observation track:

 

Note the following:

 

 

• Altitude 7000+ feet AGL
  

 

• Speed 270+ KIAs
  

 

• Bank Angle less than 10 degrees
  

 

• TGP on the left wing and accordingly, banked to left
  

[bopok]

Here is a 17 min constant observation track:

 

Note the following:

 

 

• Altitude 7000+ feet AGL
  

 

• Speed 270+ KIAs
  

 

• Bank Angle less than 10 degrees
  

 

• TGP on the left wing and accordingly, banked to left
  

Above and beyond.

 

Thank you.

[kylania]

Ya, I guess I'm also impatient. I don't egress nearly long enough to get to 15k feet let alone 25k. Gotta get back in and get the rest of that column.

 

This is my problem too. I'll extend out for a ridiculously long time then glance down at my TGP and I'm only 3.1nm away from my target. :joystick:

[hassata]

One word-Altitude. Plus you should be at least above Angels 12 to avoid ground-based threats.

[711Hancer]

you can also slow down during your turns to gain more time if you are safe from any treats

[Laud]

Might I suggest to develop techniques that also work in unknown threat environments?! Orbiting overhead a group of targets at 10k ft sounds like a good way to die, once you fly a mission you haven't designed yourself! ;)

[711Hancer]

One thing I hate from the campaign missions is that there are always three tanks or targets, generally speaking. If you find the two, you can easily estimate the location of the third since they are perfectly aligned like our solar system which kills realism in my opinion. I also don't like the the remaining tanks ( if their buddies got killed) to move only few meters away instead of retreating or leaving the area in order to mess with your target acquisition but its lame, they are generally sitting ducks.

 

Generally the Georgian Hammer campaign was too easy and repetitive.

So if you are flying G.H. missions, dont worry too much :) The SEAD and CAP are always there for you to keep treats to min while you loiter and search for targets. Do not forget your eagle eyed wingman also.

[Laud]

One thing I hate from the campaign missions is that there are always three tanks or targets, generally speaking. If you find the two, you can easily estimate the location of the third since they are perfectly aligned like our solar system which kills realism in my opinion. I also don't like the the remaining tanks ( if their buddies got killed) to move only few meters away instead of retreating or leaving the area in order to mess with your target acquisition but its lame, they are generally sitting ducks.

 

Generally the Georgian Hammer campaign was too easy and repetitive.

So if you are flying G.H. missions, dont worry too much :) The SEAD and CAP are always there for you to keep treats to min while you loiter and search for targets. Do not forget your eagle eyed wingman also.

 

Single Players speaking...

 

That's why I'm flying MP exclusively since the very beginning of LockOn.

 

There will always be someone or something trying to kick your a$$. :joystick:

 

Though it's a lot of work to continously build missions for that effect.:doh:

[711Hancer]

Single Players speaking...

 

That's why I'm flying MP exclusively since the very beginning of LockOn.

 

There will always be someone or something trying to kick your a$$. :joystick:

 

Though it's a lot of work to continously build missions for that effect.:doh:

 

Exactly but if you play the same campaign mission with a friend in MP, its even easier :)

 

we need harder missions with time constraints and fewer air support...etc

[Fish]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies.

 

It appears I was banking way too much (>30 degrees) and that was exacerbated by being pretty low 5-6k feet.

 

Once you start thinking about the geometery, you are 90% to solving your issue.

[bopok]

Might I suggest to develop techniques that also work in unknown threat environments?! Orbiting overhead a group of targets at 10k ft sounds like a good way to die, once you fly a mission you haven't designed yourself! ;)

 

Any suggestions?

[Laud]

Yes, start at 20.000ft and keep clear off the target area for at least 5-10nm. Establish a racetrack orbit and start scanning the area and your RWR, from above an area that is known/supposed to be relatively safe. Then get closer and/or lower once you think it is safe and beginn to engage targets highest threat first. Configure your CMS dispenser programm so you can react to a sudden IR missile launch, coming from a unit you missed to spot. I think thats a beginning. Even though you might not have a sustained free TGP-FOV, you might survive longer. At least that's how I (we) do it. Might be different for SP missions with AI-super-sensor-wingman... but in unknown environments, depending on your own and facing a mean mission-builders air defense scenario, it works quite well.