Please go the "Open Beta" route next time.

[PeterP]

Hello ED,

 

after seeing the bugs and glitches that are included in BS2 - (I will not go into details here but as example: BS2 is nearly unplayable for me with a FFB joystick in it's state right now)

 

I would suggest you go the "Open Beta" route when releasing a major Upgrade/patch or whatever you might call it.

-like you did successfully with A10 .

 

So people are aware that they will face issues and you have time to make sure the Quality of the product will meet your/our expectations when you release the final version.

So you will have not to release small Hot-fixes one after another -all probably made in cost-intensive overwork - and you could also get some fresh needed money when realeasing it as "OpenBeta".

And you will have time to iron out all things without a hurry.

 

-No offend intended ,Just my thoughts.

[Nobody96]

Hmm... why not simply call it a "open beta" for yourself? The "stable" version is still available so I cannot see any difference.

 

What I hope for is, that the fixes to bugs like the one regarding FFB are released as soon as they are ready, even if the patch is really small and doesn't change anything else.

 

so long

Mathias

[PeterP]

Thanks for the suggestion Nobody96 -

But than go also in the "BS2 released thread" and tell that all other that are not as open-minded like I am.

Edited November 9, 2011 by PeterP

[Nobody96]

I don't have my fireproof flamewar protection gear handy right now, so I will pass on that :-)

 

Also I would post something like: "If only they had one platform and would provide modules as kind of a plugin, so when they update one, the other modules would be updated to. Since that would often result in some work to adapt the modules I would even be willing to pay some small extra fee, given that I could choose not to update my previous build module... oh wait, they did exactly that... never mind"

 

I suppose that comment would get me killed so I keep it here where people are more open minded.

 

so long

Mathias

[kylania]

What's the fundamental difference between this release and an open beta release? You pay money for both, you get updates for both, both have bugs. I'm just not seeing how it would be any different.

 

Even if it was beta and they released some patch that broke your joystick you still wouldn't have had any pre-warning that it wasn't going to work and it would still be broken till it was fixed.

[PeterP]

What's the fundamental difference between this release and an open beta release? .

Its a psychological factor.

 

And that's a very big different.

Human beings don't act rational every-time (very rare in my experience).

And this would help to communicate problems in a much better and rational way. - so for example:

You pay money for both, you get updates for both, both have bugs. I'm just not seeing how it would be any different.

You would be able to choose if you go through this or just wait for the final release.

-It worked with DCS-A10 very good in my opinion.

 

Even if it was beta and they released some patch that broke your joystick you still wouldn't have had any pre-warning that it wasn't going to work and it would still be broken till it was fixed.

Yes you are right - but I also wouldn't expect that it would work in the beta in the first release.

Edited November 9, 2011 by PeterP

[nomdeplume]

Also from my observations, preparing an open beta release is no less of a challenge than preparing a non-beta release, so I don't think you'd really see any change in the frequency of updates.

 

Maybe if they had an easy way for us to sync the latest build and they felt comfortable with breaking it frequently -- perhaps by encouraging everyone to also have a stable version installed so if you just want to play the damned thing you can -- it might work better. On the other hand, a lot of people wouldn't bother with builds that were frequently broken in various ways, and they already have quite a lot of beta testers; so a lot of issues would still slip through.

 

True "betas" aren't really something most people would want to do deal with. Google's lulled everyone into a false sense of security, I think...

[WRFirefox]

...but if you wait for a final release without BUGs, then you are getting very old...... im don't knowing any Software without one or more bugs...do you????

[PeterP]

...do you????

 

WRFirefox, I'm not talking about a bug free release.

I'm a rational thinking being - and I don't expect this at all.

 

What I have In mind is that releasing a beta beforehand would prevent things that the community had right now.

 

- Installer routine for Steam-releases wasn't working

- no change-log released beforehand

- Downloads was first named "Patch" - than "Upgrade" . -many are confused.

- "Show-stoppers" like FFB-bug slipped through testing.

- we see the first hot-fix for download.

...

 

I don't want to rant or start another flame thread . It's just a open letter to ED that I think it would be no harm if you would first release a upgrade like this as a Beta next time.

Edited November 9, 2011 by PeterP

[Krippz]

WRFirefox, I'm not talking about a bug free release.

I'm a rational thinking being - and I don't expect this at all.

 

What I have In mind is that releasing a beta beforehand would prevent things that the community had right now.

 

- Installer routine for Steam-releases wasn't working

- no change-log released beforehand

- Downloads was first named "Patch" - than "Upgrade" . -many are confused.

- "Show-stoppers" like FFB-bug slipped through testing.

- we see the first hot-fix for download.

...

 

I don't want to rant or start another flame thread . It's just a open letter to ED that I think it would be no harm if you would first release a upgrade like this as a Beta next time.

 

Well there was obviously a lot that went on behind closed doors that we are not privy to. I'm inclined to give ED/TFC the benefit of the doubt as they have been doing this for a long time. I'm not saying that they are not infallible but "things happen" sometimes avoidable problems happen but I think they dealt with the aftermath fine by getting everyone a working installer ASAP.

[Migow]

WRFirefox, I'm not talking about a bug free release.

I'm a rational thinking being - and I don't expect this at all.

 

What I have In mind is that releasing a beta beforehand would prevent things that the community had right now.

 

- Installer routine for Steam-releases wasn't working

- no change-log released beforehand

- Downloads was first named "Patch" - than "Upgrade" . -many are confused.

- "Show-stoppers" like FFB-bug slipped through testing.

- we see the first hot-fix for download.

...

 

I don't want to rant or start another flame thread . It's just a open letter to ED that I think it would be no harm if you would first release a upgrade like this as a Beta next time.

PeterP is right ,the game has too much bug ,that break many part of game

and many bug are still not corrected after years:cry:

[sylkhan]

PeterP, I totaly agree with you, but I think it's ok for a new release. For an existing module like BS, it would be funny to have a pre-beta patch/upgrade of BS2 :)

[Conure]

I think the performance seems to need tweaking but then I'm not programmer so hardly able to speak! Agree with PeterP regarding the Beta.

 

As a side question, what was the purpose of DCS Black Shark? I mean, I thougth these were made for military use, who would want a Black Shark simulator for practical purposes??

[PeterP]

@ the moderators

before this thread turns into a listing of bugs and pro and cons of the new version - please close it.

There are enough thread that a debating this already.

 

I think that my massage got trough - and that's the only reason why I opened this thread.

 

 

PeterP, I totaly agree with you, but I think it's ok for a new release. For an existing module like BS, it would be funny to have a pre-beta patch/upgrade of BS2

I don't think that it would look "funny" - and this really shouldn't be the question.

 

I think it depends what is more helpful in the end.

 

slightly "Funny"(-if you want to give it a name) is only what we have these days.

Edited November 9, 2011 by PeterP

[74th_Lunatic]

@ the moderators

before this thread turns into a listing of bugs and pro and cons of the new version - please close it.

There are enough thread that a debating this already.

 

I think that my massage got trough - and that's the only reason why I opened this thread.

 

 

 

I don't think that it would look "funny" - and this really shouldn't be the question.

 

I think it depends what is more helpful in the end.

 

slightly "Funny"(-if you want to give it a name) is only what we have these days.

 

 

PeterP, I'l take a massage any day. However more to the point I accept you rationale, but, do you not think that this may be a beta, but just not worded as such? I do.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

What's the fundamental difference between this release and an open beta release? You pay money for both, you get updates for both, both have bugs. I'm just not seeing how it would be any different.

First, you get much larger base of testers. You get thousands of testers instead of only few dozen official testers. Second, you get much more diverse platform testing.

 

And third and most important, you are assured that at least one more version (final) is coming relatively soon, to address some of the problems. Right now, we may never get a patch after this final release.

[YakobeGrizzlyLepotyv]

some how i think that doing an open or buy and get beta testing would be a bit stupid, the only reasont hat they did beta testing for DCS: A-10 was becasue they were aproaching a new aircraft and they wanted to get it right. Doing this for BS2 wasnt seen as necisary due to already having released the DCS: BS game first. Don't get mad at ED for not beta testing tehy were not aware of these issues and im sure they are trying ahrd to resolve as many of them as poossible. And yes i did have my fair share of problems.

[kylania]

Right now, we may never get a patch after this final release.

 

I don't believe this is a "final" release. For Black Shark 1 I sure do, but for Black Shark 2 it's the initial release of the true DCS version of it. So for "DCS" there will most certainly be new patches coming out that will affect A-10C and BS2 both since the code base is the same now. They can't not patch BS2 anymore since it needs to remain compatible with A-10C which will continue to get patches.

[Smokin Hole]

If ED had introduced an open beta for BS2 I think I would have taken somewhat as them gaming the community. BS2 is not a new engine and it's not a new flyable. A beta program would have left me and probably a few others scratching their heads. No, ED did ok. FC2 also had these problems. Two weeks later they patched it and all was well. And A-10 still had some niggling problems even after the open beta. Those were resolved over the spring and it's now Hog perfection.