Get BS2 for a Warthog guy?

[bluepilot76]

Hi Helo Jocks.

 

I did mess around a bit in BS, untill A10 came along. I am wondering about getting BS2. Does it bring enough changes to BS to pull me out of the A10?

 

My main gripes with BS were:

 

1) extremely annoying common death by some sort of control or trim freezes,

 

2) campaign missions fizzle out if you survive long enough- you can just go around mopping up because everyone stops for dinner or its Eastenders or something.

 

3) General discontent with wierd crossed airplane / helicopter flight dynamics,

 

4) too many missions being, fly to A, waste enemy at A1 with standoff, get bored, go in for close stuff and get shot down. Or killed by wierd trim freeze.

 

5) general confusion over Russian machinery, buttons, switches...

 

I realise that it will still be a russian helicopter-plane thing and so should it remain. I am hoping that the other improvements will get me back into it?

[159th_Falcon]

Won't change mate, that's just how it is IRL.

As for the trim, you are doing something wrong, not the simulation.

 

You do know that there are 2 different ways of trimming right?

One is basically just clicking, the other is clicking and then you HAVE TO

center ALL control axis to be able to steer again.

I bet your using the latter one.

 

as for the crossed airplane/helicopter flight dynamics, what are those?

the KA-50 behaves like any other proper helicopter for as far as i can compare.

 

As for the missions, its the same in the A10C, fly there, look for targets, eliminate them and return home safely.

 

and for your latest point, there no different then american ones.

except then ofcourse that they are well made and durable, but that's the only difference. :D

 

But if your really a warthog guy, don't buy BS2 unless you want to support ED.

Might be a better idea in your case to wait for FC3 and try some different airplanes.

 

~S~

[EtherealN]

1) extremely annoying common death by some sort of control or trim freezes,

 

If using center trim mode, I'm almost 100% certain that this is a controller issue - you center your controllers physically, but they are still sending a slightly "off" signal to the computer. The solution is a minor deadzone. (Or new controller or surgery to replace potentiometers.)

 

3) General discontent with wierd crossed airplane / helicopter flight dynamics,

 

I don't understand what you mean by this.

 

4) too many missions being, fly to A, waste enemy at A1 with standoff, get bored, go in for close stuff and get shot down. Or killed by wierd trim freeze.

 

If you mean GOW campaign, it's slightly more simplistic than it could have been. But this is because there's hundreds of missions in it. ;)

 

I'd recommend flying online in general, or flying some of the excellent user-created missions and campaigns that are available, and of course the Deployment Campaign. There is also the very nice Medvedev 2 campaign in BS2.

 

5) general confusion over Russian machinery, buttons, switches...

 

You can use english cockpit of course - indeed that's the default. The machinery itself I don't find particularly "russian". A power switch is a power switch no matter if it's on a russian or american bird.

 

I realise that it will still be a russian helicopter-plane thing and so should it remain. I am hoping that the other improvements will get me back into it?

 

What do you mean by "helicopter-plane" thing?

[bluepilot76]

Hi Guys thanks for the input,,

 

by airplane - helicopter, I meant, well its not really a convetional helicopter is it, with its two discs and no tail rotor and it has two massive wings, so once its up to speed it starts to act a bit like an airoplane (right?) for example if your going fast and you pull up whilst dumping the collective, the beast will still climb like a homesick angel. At least that was my impression, I am rusty though I have been in the Hog. And istn there a bit of a conflict between the rotor and the aerodynamics, its pretty easy to get everything crossed and before you know it you ve knocked your rotors off! It can be frustrating because there seems very little warning tht your about to do it...

 

Western Vs Eastern ergonomics, Yeah Im used to western ADI and ergonomic layout, which the AK50 doesnt seem to me. Thats how it is though and exactly how it should be modelled, just it might be a bit too much of a project for me to take on. Limited time etc. Don think I ever tried the English cockpit though, as that seemed like cheating. Maybe I shouldnt make life so difficult for myself !

 

I did have some good times in the KA50 though, but we fell out when the controls kept freezing after investing hours into a mission. Maybe I have got the trimming thing down wrong, but I am sure I was doing it right, that was one thing I did a bit of research on. 99% of the time I would be ok, just flying around going: point, click, release.... point,click,release....point,click,release. Then all of a sudden it would be ....point,click,release,controls locked, crash.I used two different controllers as well and am fairly confident that the 2nd one is ok.

 

The mission that everything seemed to die off on was the one based around sochi-adler.

 

To be honost Im not short of £20 at the moment and DCS certainly deserve it as far as Im concerned, so I will probably buy it and give it a go. At least now I know I can get help on the forum if I need it, back when I first used KA-50 I was not a forumite, so when I ran into these issues I kind of lost interest pretty quick.

[Irregular programming]

I had the issue with frozen controllers after trimming. The solution was editing a lua file so that what it detects the actual center point to be slightly larger than before.

 

I now have no problems at all.

 

Other than that I found the Ka-50 to be way easier to learn than the a-10.

[EtherealN]

by airplane - helicopter, I meant, well its not really a convetional helicopter is it, with its two discs and no tail rotor and it has two massive wings, so once its up to speed it starts to act a bit like an airoplane (right?) for example if your going fast and you pull up whilst dumping the collective, the beast will still climb like a homesick angel.

 

This is not specific to the Ka-50 or Coaxials. All helicopters do this.

 

A helicopter at speed is flown pretty much the same as you fly a fixed-wing, except that your attitude is slightly different. The wingstubs do contribute to lift, but less than you might think, and when flying fast they are even giving negative lift due to their orientation.

 

At least that was my impression, I am rusty though I have been in the Hog. And istn there a bit of a conflict between the rotor and the aerodynamics, its pretty easy to get everything crossed and before you know it you ve knocked your rotors off! It can be frustrating because there seems very little warning tht your about to do it...

 

Just be careful about flying close to Vne and you're fine. When close to Vne, don't slam right rudder. That's pretty much it.

 

Western Vs Eastern ergonomics, Yeah Im used to western ADI and ergonomic layout, which the AK50 doesnt seem to me. Thats how it is though and exactly how it should be modelled, just it might be a bit too much of a project for me to take on. Limited time etc. Don think I ever tried the English cockpit though, as that seemed like cheating. Maybe I shouldnt make life so difficult for myself !

 

I don't consider it cheating. Of course, after spending some time with the bird you'll know what is where no matter what language the buttons have, but until then a real pilot would typically have it in a way that he is able to understand, so... Go with what works for you.

 

I did have some good times in the KA50 though, but we fell out when the controls kept freezing after investing hours into a mission. Maybe I have got the trimming thing down wrong, but I am sure I was doing it right, that was one thing I did a bit of research on. 99% of the time I would be ok, just flying around going: point, click, release.... point,click,release....point,click,release. Then all of a sudden it would be ....point,click,release,controls locked, crash.I used two different controllers as well and am fairly confident that the 2nd one is ok.

 

As mentioned, I think this is a controller issue. On "normal" trim mode, when you trim you'll have 0.5 seconds to center everything and then the simulator starts taking commands again. In centre trim mode, it will wait until everything is centered. If your controllers never give a proper centred command, it'll just sit there "frozen" - this can happen from bad potentiometers and so on. As mentioned, fixed either through using the other trimmer mode or introducing a deadzone to the controller.

 

To be honost Im not short of £20 at the moment and DCS certainly deserve it as far as Im concerned, so I will probably buy it and give it a go. At least now I know I can get help on the forum if I need it, back when I first used KA-50 I was not a forumite, so when I ran into these issues I kind of lost interest pretty quick.

 

No worries. If you get problems, don't hesitate to post here and we'll try to help you out. :)

[sgtmike74]

Just my take is yes get it. Its still the most realistic heli sim out there. You can fly coop with A10. The ME has been improved and yes we should support ED. There isnt many sim developers out there and as long as they put out quality products with support I will buy.

[agrasyuk]

i got BS1 at a time but never extensively flew it really. now coming back into simming again and i got heavily into the A10 . couple days ago i took the plunge for BS2 and wow. trying out a helo is so refreshing. all i'm doing for now is just exploring beautiful terrain of Caucasus and it already worth every penny for me.

 

just my 0.02

[Bucic]

In general I feel it's the case that you're not ready to enjoy even BS1. Don't get me wrong but if you've got limited knowledge of the BS it's not possible you'd enjoy it fully. Learn 20% more and get 20% of satisfaction more. Get 50% better set of controls and get 50% more satisfaction of playing BS.

 

I reviewed your points, bluepilot76, and I must say only one is legitimate and that is #2 which is related to the general zombiness of the DCS world as soon as you leave the intended route.

 

What BS 2 can offer in that department? Improved radio comms! You can hear other flights on the same frequency!

 

#3 is just... silly. A more legitimate reason to hate the machine itself would be its medieval avionics. Trebucheeeeeeeeeeet! :crazy:

 

"English cockpit is cheating / unrealistic"

This on the other hand can't be called just silly :sly: But don't worry. Even some blokes 10 years into flight sims / aviation fall for that nonsense. Well, I guess they were rather busy simming than with aviation.

 

#5 Confusion? Try Rookie pilots - Quick Intro first and especially Cockpit Tool Tips MOD by Baal!

 

As EtherealN said - there is no Russian-specific source of confusion in Ka-50. Apart from theirspecial approach to ergonomics but IMO it's not that significant.

 

Other things BS 2 would impress me with:

* heli AI is not suicidal anymore

* FOG - a proper FOG. No more quirky 90's fog with objects popping through http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=58396&d=1320449736

* Improved sound

* Improved radio comms!

* many more http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=81117

 

Edit:

#1 Do you use X-52 series by any chance? Are you REALLY familiar with both trimmer implementations available in DCS BS?

#4 I played BS for 2 years but I haven't played much of the campaign missions TBH so I can't comment on that extensively. BUT! Knowing the vast set of ME improvements since BS 1 and Waggs mission making skills I doubt most of the missions are of A-B type. Maybe you should try spending more time on pre-mission preparations to play them as if you would have done it in real life i.e. had one try / one life?

Edited November 18, 2011 by Bucic

[zagan]

HA HA, Not really adding much to the convo.

 

But I prefer the KA-50 to the A-10 myself.

 

I find the KA-50 really easy to get started and get going and take stuff out on the other hand the A-10 is a brain drain for me I try to get into it but I end up getting too tired after 10 mins and have to sleep but that could be from 60 hour weeks too and just not enough time to be able to get into it properly.

 

So if it was up to me I'd buy the KA-50 2.

[Itkovian]

I prefer BS2 for a multitude of reasons, myself.

 

- I prefer flying helicopters. The flying itself is more of a challenge than fixed-wing.

 

- Simpler avionics. AS with above, I can focus more on the flying than with playing with the computers.

 

- The constant low-level NOE flight is just more fun.

 

- As I mostly fly single player, I find that BS2 has much more robust single-player campaign offerings. The GOW is an excellent campaign with a lot of missions (yes, it goes dead if you get off track, but that's how non-dynamic missions are), the Deployment campaign is also nice and detailed, AND there's a new campaign to boot.

 

Not that I don't love the A-10C. I love it and my HOTAS Warthog adds so much to the immersion. But BS2 is exactly what I was wishing ED would do.

 

I just hope we get more campaign offerings in A-10C soon.

 

Itkovian

[bluepilot76]

Hi all,

Just to say I haven't abandoned ship, just very busy with real life so I have only been able to read your posts, not get started with BS2, but I am looking forward to a nice rainy day so I can give it a good chance. I like the sound of the new campaign, and also chance to fly in familiar territory

Edited November 23, 2011 by bluepilot76

[bluepilot76]

OK, I got it, I am having fun. I have remembered what my main gripe was! Flying the damn beast. It seems alright , until you try and trim it, then it decides to fly back onto some course you forgot about when someone let loose on you. Put up the controls indicater, trimming in right rudder apparently. Was I ? Now everything's crossed. No wonder the blades keep chopping themselves off! It's a challenge and I do like them, so I will perceiver. Towards the end of my last KA50 stint I had developed the technique of turning off al the AP channels. Seemed more predictable to me. I felt in control at last, wrong apparently so trying to go with them on now. Not sure it's helping. Anyway the new shadows are nice. Haven't noticed a lot else but just trying to get a feel for the beast so no campaigns yet.

[EtherealN]

Don't turn off the channels - they are dampers/stabilizers and are NOT related to the problem you are having. If you really don't like the AP functions, use FD instead.

 

Usually however, the "problem" you are describing is simply that you are trying to use the trimmer as if you were in a fixed wing.

 

Ubwd7hid-s8

 

The "click-clack" is the trimmer.