tgt pod on left or right?

[wess24m]

Does it make a difference? once I take out the AD I normally go into a wide left hand pattern, so i'd assume you would have a continuous view of the area being circled. curious of any other people switching pod sides.

[cichlidfan]

Does it make a difference? once I take out the AD I normally go into a wide left hand pattern, so i'd assume you would have a continuous view of the area being circled. curious of any other people switching pod sides.

 

I believe that in RL, only one pylon on the aircraft is wired for the TGP.

[Snoopy]

I believe that in RL, only one pylon on the aircraft is wired for the TGP.

 

Nope just like the sim we carry the pod on either wing. There is no standard.

[cichlidfan]

Nope just like the sim we carry the pod on either wing. There is no standard.

 

I don't mind being corrected by someone who knows for sure!:D

[wess24m]

I have over the course of my flights on this sim begun to ensure that my TGP is always under my right wing. I do this for orientation purposes. Symbology aside, I innately understand my (and the TGP) orientation to the starepoint on the ground by the motion of the aircraft and the motion of the FOV geometry. Thus I have another tool to gain situational awareness, especially when maneuvering, in less-than-perfect weather conditions, and - very important - an understanding of when the view of the target through the TGP is going to be masked by the aircraft. This knowledge tells my lizard brain when and where I need to turn to keep the target in sight without having to think too much about it.

 

 

Never occurred to me to use the location in thins way, very interesting.

[BlueRidgeDx]

For what it's worth, there is guidance to carry the pod on Station 10. It's not mandatory, but it was determined during testing that it was preferred to be on the right for several reasons.

 

1) In terms of aircraft performance and controllability, a right engine failure is worse than a left engine failure. I don't know why, but it is.

 

2) As a result of #1, it is preferred to carry the ALQ pod on the left, to help offset the drag of a failed right engine.

 

3) As a result of #2, it is preferred to carry the TGP on the right in order to maintain a symmetrical load.

 

4) Consistently carrying the pod on one side of the airplane makes it easier to setup cockpit habit patterns. For instance: the MFCDs should be setup to display TGP video on the same side the pod is loaded, since that's the direction you'll be turning while using the pod, and you don't want to look across the cockpit in the wrong direction to see the video.

 

5) As a result of #4, it's easier to deconflict airspace if you know which way everyone is going to be turning.

 

As pointed out by Paul, however, not all units choose to heed the advice.

[Snoopy]

What is the guidance? Not one Tech Order I have read says anything like that.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Paul,

 

It's not something I can post here, but it's pilot academics - not a T.O.

[wess24m]

What is the guidance? Not one Tech Order I have read says anything like that.

 

I can see that making sense as far as everybody orbiting the same direction, but by default the LMFD has a tgt pod mode button already assigned. I realize this can be changed but for 'not having to press another series of buttons sake' i use tgt on the left while i'm using mav on the right since i'd have to change one of the buttons to mav on the left MFD if I wanted to ad hear to turning towards the direction my pod is displaying.

 

On the other hand this reminds me of a story they told when I went through the police acadamy about uniformity..the state troopers used to always wear their gun on the right so they would be uniformity the same, regardless of right/left hand dominance.

 

thx for the reply

Edited December 5, 2011 by wess24m
change

[Snoopy]

Paul,

 

It's not something I can post here, but it's pilot academics - not a T.O.

 

Not doubting you more curious since I have looked through many TOs on this subject...got your PM. Thanks!

[joey45]

I can see that making sense as far as everybody orbiting the same direction, but by default the LMFD has a tgt pod mode button already assigned. I realize this can be changed but for 'not having to press another series of buttons sake' i use tgt on the left while i'm using mav on the right since i'd have to change one of the buttons to mav on the left MFD if I wanted to ad hear to turning towards the direction my pod is displaying.

thx for the reply

Swap round the MFCDs..

[BlueRidgeDx]

Why would it not be in a TO for the guys who actually have to install the equipment on the airframe and do the W&B?

 

I assume because it's technique only, and can/could be done differently should the tactical situation dictate otherwise. If it's in the TO, then it becomes law.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Yep, AF tells you what you're specifically allowed to do; Navy only tells you what you're specifically not allowed to do.

[Mad Dog 7.62]

All of the A-10's I saw during Hawgsmoke 2010 had whichever pod they were carrying (Litening or Sniper) on Station 10. These were representative of almost every A-10 squadron and I do not recall seeing a single bird with the pod under the left wing.

MD

 

Edit: Just checked my pics and I am wrong. Moody (FT) and Kansas City (KC) squadrons have them on Station 2, everyone else seems to be on Station 10. It does seem to be a squadron preference rather than an individual aircraft thing as nearly as I can tell from my pics. In other words, all the FT and KC birds were left wing, everyone else right.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Mad Dog 7.62

[wess24m]

Swap round the MFCDs..

 

just double checked, left MFD has tgt assigned by default, the right MFD had both tgt and mav by default so maybe I didn't explain it clearly. Why go through reassigning the mav button to the left MFD when you can just as easily just punch up the tgt (which is already there) on the left mfd and mav on your right? Just just taking advantage of the default MFD button assignments.

[BlueRidgeDx]

just double checked, left MFD has tgt assigned by default, the right MFD had both tgt and mav by default so maybe I didn't explain it clearly. Why go through reassigning the mav button to the left MFD when you can just as easily just punch up the tgt (which is already there) on the left mfd and mav on your right? Just just taking advantage of the default MFD button assignments.

 

In the real world, you want to be looking in the same direction as you're turning, thus you want the TGP video on the same side as the pod.

 

It's hard to appreciate if you haven't experienced it, but moving your head in an out-of-plane direction while turning/maneuvering is a greatway to get spatial disorientation. Having the video on the correct side means that without moving your head, you can keep the target in sight and keep the horizon in sight.

 

In the real world, the MFCD labels are configured using the AWE software, and are transferred to the jet via DTC. Easy!

[ralfidude]

The airforce doesnt think it would be a good idea to mount a TGP as an internal instrument on the belly when not carrying a middle pylon? Just a little bulge on the understide, where it would not be masked half the time as much in flight as when having it on the wing. Plus no more losing your target because the TGP cannot see behind itself...

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

1) In terms of aircraft performance and controllability, a right engine failure is worse than a left engine failure. I don't know why, but it is.

 

Can anyone expand on this? I've never heard of a jet aircraft having a critical engine unless it is an outboard engine on a quad or the upwind engine on takeoff. I'm not an A-10 pilot but I am a pilot who has flown a level 6 CRJ-200 simulator (which shares the same engine as the A-10 with relatively similar placement) and that didn't have a critical engine...

[BlueRidgeDx]

Can anyone expand on this? I've never heard of a jet aircraft having a critical engine unless it is an outboard engine on a quad or the upwind engine on takeoff. I'm not an A-10 pilot but I am a pilot who has flown a level 6 CRJ-200 simulator (which shares the same engine as the A-10 with relatively similar placement) and that didn't have a critical engine...

 

Adios,

 

On the A-10, the controllability problems arise from the secondary failure of the right hydraulic system following a right engine failure.

 

After losing the right hydraulic system, the slats will auto-extend, causing an increase in drag and a decrease in climb performance. Additionally, as verified by flight test data, pedal forces are greater for a right engine failure. See the Dash-1 excerpt below:

 

"Flight tests show a significantly higher rudder force is required to maintain controlled flight following the failure of a right engine as opposed to the failure of a left engine. The additional force required varies but has been measured to be as high as 100 pounds. The onset rate is rapid and occurs when the right hydraulic system depressurizes, about the same time that the slats extend. Failure to apply sufficient and timely rudder inputs may result in yaw rates so high that there is insufficient rudder available to correct it, and the aircraft will depart controlled flight. Use of rudder trim may be necessary to relieve excessive rudder pressure."

Edited December 5, 2011 by BlueRidgeDx

[ralfidude]

You're right about that one.

 

There is a point where it's just too late to apply yaw trim and you just spin out of control, only option left is to eject. Pretty sure I experienced this on both engine failures.

 

Today I played on a server that a guy was testing. Extremely terrible conditions. Took 4 tries to start the aircraft, as the engine would cut off every single goddamn time on the runway. Manually restarted the engine and got to the runway, started rolling, then 3/4th of the way there, my right engine goes out... :( I struggle to pull up, now my left gear wont come up... now Im frantically trying to turn right around to land, and its already too late, as the plane just yaws to far to the right no matter how much rudder I use, that it just rolls over as it's yawing and blamo... into the ground.

 

 

PS: Are lightning strikes modeled in DCS? As we were trying to start up our planes, at some point my friend said he just got hit by lightning. Lost power, had a lot of master cautions, but engines were still ok. I never heard the lighting strike, but he said for him he heard it. Wanted to make sure if it's the wind that's causing these problems or it was really a lightning strike.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

Thank you for the quick reply! As is now obvious, I was only considering the aerodynamics of losing the engine itself and not the secondary systems that feed off each. I appreciate it.

[wess24m]

In the real world, you want to be looking in the same direction as you're turning, thus you want the TGP video on the same side as the pod.

 

It's hard to appreciate if you haven't experienced it, but moving your head in an out-of-plane direction while turning/maneuvering is a greatway to get spatial disorientation. Having the video on the correct side means that without moving your head, you can keep the target in sight and keep the horizon in sight.

 

In the real world, the MFCD labels are configured using the AWE software, and are transferred to the jet via DTC. Easy!

 

 

Makes complete sense to me, I'll keep that in mind thx for your expertise. :thumbup:

[Snoopy]

Would be ideal but I don't think the centerline hard point is wired for anything other than fuel.

 

It isn't moddled in the sim but you can carry more than externals on station 6, but, to do that you can't have anything on 5 or 7.

[RodBorza]

I have over the course of my flights on this sim begun to ensure that my TGP is always under my right wing. I do this for orientation purposes. Symbology aside, I innately understand my (and the TGP) orientation to the starepoint on the ground by the motion of the aircraft and the motion of the FOV geometry. Thus I have another tool to gain situational awareness, especially when maneuvering, in less-than-perfect weather conditions, and - very important - an understanding of when the view of the target through the TGP is going to be masked by the aircraft. This knowledge tells my lizard brain when and where I need to turn to keep the target in sight without having to think too much about it.

 

Sorry, just to make it simpler to me. I tend to always turn to the left. I do that for a number of reasons, one is of course safety and deconflict with the wingman. So, in this case, the best thing would be to have the TGP on the left? If I turn right, then, right? I know it's a pilot preference, but I wanna hear from others experiences.

[RodBorza]

Superstitious and a creature of habits. Pilot all right.

Thanks for the answers. I think I'll start carrying the pod on the left wing.

SA is very important. In the A-10 I realy miss it, since I'm going in circles above the target with the occasional engagment. But at night, with the RWR lit like a Chrismas tree, things get pretty scary.

 

P.S.: In the never-ending question about what will be the next DCS aircraft I remember a discussion about the F-15E and the WSO role on it. If it's valid to have a sim that features two seats and who would be willing to ride on the back seat. My answer I think it is, because as boring as it might look like to be the Wizzo, it is not, because one of his functions is to maintain aircraft SA all times. And learning a trick or two helps.