Mission Editor and Tanker Q's

[Reo]

Hey guys,

I'm new to the DCS A-10 and have been reading posts here for days now and trying to figure out some things in the mission editor. Some things don't make any sense to me and are either not working or I'm not doing something. Here are the issues.

 

1- Created a tanker and no matter what speed I set him at and his waypoints he slows to 170-185. I've tried to set him from 200-250 yet 170-185 is what he does. Is this normal? I've read that it isn't.

 

2- What's the deal with the QNH? I've read people say that QNH is 700 = 29.92 yet in the mission editor it won't go below 720 and I start my mission 2,000' above what I set it for. My HUD, altimeter say one thing and outside (bottom info bar) says I'm 2,000' higher. Is this a bug or what? It's hard to create a mission when it doesn't do what you want. If it isn't straight forward in what I should type in then what's the formula I use to get the alt I want? Not even sure why it say QNH when 720 is not QNH.

 

3- Are there updated manuals somewhere? Hard to read the existing ones since so much seems to have changed. The manuals say one thing and the release notes, or changes are completely different on several things, especially the weapon systems, inventory, etc. Since I bought this I've been slamming my head on my desk since the pdf's say one thing about clearing weapons and finally I stumble across a quite rude reply to someone in my shoes here yelling at the guy to read the release notes and crap about WIP. Sorry, but it isn't that tough to put out a new set of PDF's when you have so many changes and yelling at someone that buys the product sure isn't the right way either. At least I don't think so. Sure, it's become the norm, but give a guy a break.

Thanks

Edited March 17, 2012 by Reo

[MadTommy]

1- Created a tanker and no matter what speed I set him at and his waypoints he slows to 170-185. I've tried to set him from 200-250 yet 170-185 is what he does. Is this normal? I've read that it isn't.

 

Are you talking about when you actually try and hook up with the tanker or just generally flying.

 

Below is a screenshot of a tanker flying an racetrack orbit on refuelling task. Set at 350knots..

 

 

Works as requested for me.

[Reo]

Yes, I'm talking about when hooking up. It will fly the speed that I have set until hook up time, then it slows drastically.

 

Would love someone to chime in on the altitude issue, such as why "QNH" won't go below 720 (even tried manually editing and defaults back to 720), and why it has 0 effect on my player1 aircraft. Starting a mission at the altitude one designates shouldn't have to enter 5,000 for 7,000 because the QNH is broke.

[159th_Falcon]

Yes, I'm talking about when hooking up. It will fly the speed that I have set until hook up time, then it slows drastically.

 

Would love someone to chime in on the altitude issue, such as why "QNH" won't go below 720 (even tried manually editing and defaults back to 720), and why it has 0 effect on my player1 aircraft. Starting a mission at the altitude one designates shouldn't have to enter 5,000 for 7,000 because the QNH is broke.

 

The mission editor is working whit mmHg as a unit for QNH

(milimeters of mercury, common on Russian altimeters)

 

720 mmHg equals 959.92 hPa which is commonly used in western aircraft

The normal atmospheric pressure here on earth on a "standard" day is 1013,something hPa

which translates to 760 mmHg which is the default in the mission editor

 

Setting anything below 720 mmHg might be deemed unrealistic because such an low pressure, or anything below it, is extremely rare and thus ED decided to draw the line there.

At least, that's what im guessing is the reason you can't set it lower then that.

 

 

 

you may also want to take a look at these links;

convert mmHG <=> hPa http://www.convertunits.com/from/hPa/to/mm+Hg

Standard atmosphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNH

[Reo]

Then it appears I read bad information here in the forum. I figured it was correct since others seemed to agree with the poster, but it was said that "700 mmHg = 29.92 = 1013 hPa".

 

In any case, I just want my altitude to be correct and it's not. My flight is set to start with the aircraft in the air at 7000'. Outside view shows it at 7000' but all my instruments show me at 9000'. So the question is, am I to go back and forth all day messing with the numbers to get the aircraft to actually start at 7000'?

 

OR

 

Can someone tell me the correct combination of entries to just get my aircraft to start at 7000'? Pretty lame that I can't just say start at 7000' in the area that asks for this which is my main issue. Obviously entering 7000' really means 9000' according what I'm seeing. This is over the ocean by the way, not that this should matter. I have also toggled all the altitude settings, baro, etc, and nothing changes on my altimeter or hud, so either that's not modeled or I'm missing something but in any case, entering a starting altitude would be nice to be the actual altitude it's starting me out at.

 

@ Tommy,

Is the tanker's speed (that shows up at the outside view, bottom strip) TAS? I can't find anything in the manual for that, but it says 225 there which is what I have it set for, yet I'm flying right by it at 195 indicated on my hud. Normally I go by visual cues once close, but hard to not overtake the tankers with no way of telling which direction it's heading, what speed it's doing etc, other than the very unrealistic way of outside views.

 

Edit: On another note. There is no way I can have "1 engine at 85%" if the tanker prefers to keep flying so slow. I'm trying to figure out why it keeps disconnecting and have had several hook ups now where I didn't flicker at all, yet it's disconnecting. Half of this troubleshooting is because I'm trying to get the fool to fly at a speed that I can accurately do as instructed. Is the instructions there meant for entertainment only? In other words how can it be modeled? Is he disconnecting just because there's some flag checking to see if I'm at 85%? I suppose I could just shut down one engine and then I could get the other above 85% which is a bit ridiculous.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Reo

[Inseckt]

Regarding the altitude thingy, could it be that you are mixing up feet an meters? IRC altitudes in the ME are given in meters, while obviously in the cockpit it would be feet. In this case I think setting the option of units from metric to imperial should do it (in the options menu of the ME)

 

cheers

Edited March 17, 2012 by Inseckt

[VFA41_Lion]

Is your tanker flying an orbit task? If it is, check the speed setting of that orbit...

[lanmancz]

In any case, I just want my altitude to be correct and it's not. My flight is set to start with the aircraft in the air at 7000'. Outside view shows it at 7000' but all my instruments show me at 9000'. So the question is, am I to go back and forth all day messing with the numbers to get the aircraft to actually start at 7000'?

 

I think you get false reading from instruments simply because they are not set correctly. You are in fact at the 7000 feet but your pressure setting on your altimeter is wrong. Every time I do ramp start I have to set my altimeter from the default pressure to the correct position. I assume it's in the default setting when you start in flight as well.

 

edit : yup, I just tested it and it's true. No matter what pressure I set in the editor the pressure setting in the Kollsman window is always the same (2992 - standart pressure setting) so the indicated altitude is wrong. When starting in flight, you should have all instruments set correctly (to current regional QNH - IRL pilots get QNH updates from ATC if I understand it correctly) but this is clearly in default. Or is it supposed to be like that ? Maybe I'm just talking nonsens here. I wonder what someone more experienced will say about this. I'm not sure if it really isn't a bug. But so obvious bug ? I'm sure they would have discovered it by now. I think we must be missing something. Can someone please explain this and how it's supposed to work ?

Edited March 17, 2012 by lanmancz

[Reo]

@Inseckt

I am not mistaken meters for feet. If I were I think I would be seeing quite a bigger difference than 7000 being seen as 9000. If I were mistaken this, 7000 would be 21000 and I would be happy since it would be obvious.

 

@NeoSH

I mentioned already what it is and it is waypoints I set up with each waypoints speed set correctly. I don't see anything in the manual or anywhere stating what a tanker slows to prior to serving up drinks, so not sure why it slows down as it does. Again, I find it hard to understand how on earth I can fly "With one engine set to 85%" (that I never heard of) and maintain a slow enough speed. That statement is wrong, so wrong. Unless of course you're talking about a single engine aircraft, you don't say "Be sure one engine is at least 85%".

 

@Ian,

Correct, the outside tape shows that I am at the preset altitude but inside is all out of whack. This shouldn't be the case though, or at least doesn't make sense to me why it is. This is why I'm trying to set the QNH. In the mission editor the QNH is set to its 720 setting, the player aircraft is set for 7000. I would like players to start a mission without having this 2000' difference so am trying to set whatever needs to be set right to have the Mission editor work as it should automatically. There has to be some problem here since I can't remember other missions having a 2000' difference from outside and in. I've never seen any mission 100% accurate but normally less than a 100' difference.

[Inseckt]

Reo, you are right, the difference would be a lot bigger if this indeed was the error, my fault for rushing a reply without actually investigating actualities.

 

About the pressure setting, 29,92 is indeed "normal day" as Ian suggests, and is the setting that is used on all aircraft above a certain "transition altitude" (which varies around the world). So the value you are reading of the HUD or whatever is not your "altitude" but your "flight level". This is how it's supposed to be, but I didn't think the diffrence of 40 mmHg would give a deviation of 2000 ft. It must be something else me thinks. (or am I just not investigating actualities again?)

 

Edit: on second thoughts, it might not be so weird after all, 720 is a pretty extreme setting it would seem, and might well give a 2000 ft error...

Edited March 17, 2012 by Inseckt

[Reo]

That's just it. I just want to figure out what I need to do in order for my specified "7000" to actually show 7000' on my altimeter and hud. I can't create a mission telling someone to ascend\descend to xxxxx' if this is as broken as it is.

 

I'm only playing with the QNH in the mission editor to try and fix the huge discrepancy in altitude. It's the only thing I can think of to help counter act the problem and get it correct. I'm a simmer and enthusiast and quite knowledgeable on QNH, I just thought I would have to both set my desired alt, then have to mess with other parameters for no reason just to get that desired alt (if that makes sense).

 

I'm surprised this has never come up. I read a few kind of similar questions in the older topics prior to posting, but since they never got correctly answered figured I'd start this thread. Maybe people just don't create missions that make people aware of their altitude and this issue.

[lanmancz]

Oh, so IRL when you takeoff and get to some safe altitude (depending on the area) you are supposed to set your pressure setting to 2992 regardless of the local conditions and continue to climb to your assigned flight level ? Now it makes sens to me. Otherwise pilots would have to constantly reset their pressures settings. In fact you reset it to local QFE just when you get your approach clearnce (and local QFE) otherwise you leave it at 2992, right ? Thanks.

[Inseckt]

The simplest solution would be to set QNH in the ME to 760 which equals normal day and thus altitude will allays equal flight level. (760 mmHg = 29,92 hPa).

 

I think the actual problem lies in terminology. Not everyone is aware that altitude means barometic altitude above sea level, while flight level and height means something else. So this must be specified unless obvious when assigning one of the above... And further, when specified, the player should be expected to carry out a pressure correction if assigned an "altitude".

Edited March 17, 2012 by Inseckt

[Inseckt]

Oh, so IRL when you takeoff and get to some safe altitude (depending on the area) you are supposed to set your pressure setting to 2992 regardless of the local conditions and continue to climb to your assigned flight level ? Now it makes sens to me. Otherwise pilots would have to constantly reset their pressures settings. In fact you reset it to local QFE just when you get your approach clearnce (and local QFE) otherwise you leave it at 2992, right ? Thanks.

 

spot on!

[Reo]

I think you're talking more about transition altitude. For the US it's FL180 using QNH, or baro of 29.92. In Germany, you would transition less and it varies, but is also not QNH, it's HP.

 

Anywho, to get back on track here. Thanks Inesckt, I was still not understanding that 760 = 2992 as I mentioned before of 700 being previously stated as that. It would sure be easier if QNH, was selectable like imperial\metric is. In any case, setting the QNH and saying to place me at 7000' should do both. Neither has anything to do with the other. If I say put me at 7000 and a QNH of xxx, then I should still be at 7000 and my instruments should be tuned accordingly so this is certainly broken.

 

The 760 setting does get it close, but it's still 100' off. This is off in all the training missions also so I guess that's the best you can do. Kind of tough when trying to do a good tanker tutorial but I guess that's why they didn't ship it with one.

 

So I guess, I'll just call that part of my questions answered as best as possible, thanks again.

 

Now if someone could tell me how one is suppose to know the tankers heading, that would be great. Not sure how it's done in the real world but am trying to make this as real as possible, with TACAN etc. TACAN means little if I can't dial in the tankers current coarse.

 

I'd also like to still understand the whole "85%" for at least one engine garbage. That's really got me searching AOM's and still trying to find out if that's why I'm being disconnected right after latch. If I need to slow to the tanker always slowing then it's not near possible to hit 85% unless I need to set the tankers speed to 300 or something.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Reo