Air to Air combat help!

[statrekmike]

So I am slowly but surely getting a handle on all the ins and outs of the weapon systems, I can drop in CCRP and CCIP mode, I can launch a few mavericks in one pass and I can strafe ground targets with the gun with some level of precision.

 

What I cannot do, is hit a air to air target, even a stationary helicopter.

 

The problem is twofold, I have issues spotting small airborne targets like Helicopters (Hinds and the like) and that even if I can spot them, the AIM-9 pipper (even when set to scan) is hard to get on target.

 

What are some of the things you all do in air to air situations, hints, tips and tutorials are really welcome at this point, the more the better.

 

Thanks so much in advance for the help!

[ralfidude]

Air to Air is easy.

 

Use your TGP to find targets.

 

 

For example, if you have the time and mavericks, dont waste your AIM-9s. USE MAVS! They have more range, and apparently much more manouverable than AIM-9, which is kinda weird to me, but im not complaining.

 

 

 

So, when you find a target, like a chopper, put your TGP on it (In AG mode). Lock it up with TMS up long, and then slave your maverick to it with china hat long forwd, then lock it up with the mav with TMS up short.

 

 

The above is done EXACTLY the same way you would attack a ground target. The ONLY difference is that its an air target. SUPER EFFECTIVE.

 

 

 

Now, ANOTHER way to do it, is if you are in hot pursuit of a target, like an A-10.

 

You are out of AIM-9s, but still have MAVS, well AA in TGP mode will not help you to slave mavs, I tried and it doesnt work like that, and its too hard to try and manouver the TGP to the flying A10 when the TGP is in AG mode if you guys are closeish and pulling manouvers.

 

 

Soo.... Instead what you need to do is select your MAV selected as SOI, then on the HUD you notice the usual MAV circle, point the aircraft so that the circle is right on target, and keep pressing TMS up short to try and lock, when you got the lock, fire away!

 

 

 

Obviously, the easiest thing to do is use the AIM-9s. Master mode to AA, and then TGP to AA mode as well. When your TGP is AA mode, it will find air targets super easy, and you will notice that a mark appears on the TGP over the target when it detects one, as soon as you see that, just press tms up to lock it up. Then china hat frwd, to slave the AIM-9 seeker head to the target.

 

BTW, you do not need to manouver the TGP RIGHt on to the target before locking it up, the second you see that mark appear on the TGP that is sees a target, if you press TMS up, it will lock it up without trouble.

 

 

If there is too much manouvering going on and using the TGP is not optimal, then the next solution would be to use the AIM-9 circle on the HUD. With Aim-9s selected, and HUD as SOI, if you press tms up short, the aim 9 circle on the HUD will spin, i think you can also move it around at this point. the second the spining circle comes in contact with a target, it auto locks it, then just fire.

 

You can also fire it without locking on target. So if the target passes by you and near the circle and you hear a nice growl tone, just pop it off, it will go after the target.

 

 

 

Here is a video montage of some of my first Air to Air kills. I have another much better one coming, but need some more footage before i can finish editing, when I am done, il post it up as well.

 

 

PS: Dont forget about your gun. Its a great tool for killing, when in AA mode, and HUD set as SOI, press DMS right, and look at the bottom left data information on the HUD, you will need to select the aircraft profile for the proper gun funnel. Gun funnel for an SU25 is different than a gun funnel for an A10 as they have different wing spans, though similar.

Edited April 3, 2012 by ralfidude

[159th_Viper]

PS: Dont forget about your gun. Its a great tool for killing, when in AA mode, and HUD set as SOI, press DMS right, and look at the bottom left data information on the HUD, you will need to select the aircraft profile for the proper gun funnel. Gun funnel for an SU25 is different than a gun funnel for an A10 as they have different wing spans, though similar.

 

Alternatively just use the gun-cross in the HUD when circumstances permit.

[roob]

Could also uncage the Sidewinders, using the china hat in some direction... Can't remember, haven't played in a while 'cause I got stuck in BS2 :D

 

When uncaging the Sidewinder it scans the surroundings by itself, which in some cases can help locate targets.

[Jona33]

Using the TGP in AA mode in my opinion is pointless. AA in a hog is basically if you get jumped in which case switch to sidewinders and try not to get killed. Get him on your nose, wait for the headache inducing tone and fire. For something like a helicopter use the gun and give them a burst. They'll go down in flames.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Could also uncage the Sidewinders, using the china hat in some direction... Can't remember, haven't played in a while 'cause I got stuck in BS2 :D

 

When uncaging the Sidewinder it scans the surroundings by itself, which in some cases can help locate targets.

 

TMS Up short uncages Mav when HUD is SOI and AA mode/Aim-9's selected. Try putting yourself behind an aircraft (something slow like a c-130 or something), select aim-9's and manouvre to lock. Listen to the lock. Now uncage the aim-9's, and notice how much louder/intense the sounds gets!

 

Using the TGP in AA mode in my opinion is pointless. AA in a hog is basically if you get jumped in which case switch to sidewinders and try not to get killed. Get him on your nose, wait for the headache inducing tone and fire. For something like a helicopter use the gun and give them a burst. They'll go down in flames.

That's absolutely right. AA in the A-10 is ALWAYS going to be visual. Using the TGP to pick up a target is going to get you killed, unless you are extremely lucky.

[GGTharos]

Poor advice. Some day the Mavs will get corrected and then suddenly you'll be wondering why they're not tracking.

 

For example, if you have the time and mavericks, dont waste your AIM-9s. USE MAVS! They have more range, and apparently much more manouverable than AIM-9, which is kinda weird to me, but im not complaining.

[Depth]

Last time I tried AA I got shot down by a helicopter :lol:

[statrekmike]

I know that AA in a A-10 is pointless, I just want to be able to do it well enough so that I am not helpless if I get in a jam.

 

Some great tips however, I will give them a try.

[159th_Viper]

 

That's absolutely right. AA in the A-10 is ALWAYS going to be visual. Using the TGP to pick up a target is going to get you killed, unless you are extremely lucky.

 

No - it's bad advice is what it is :)

 

Boresight the Deppresible Pipper to the TGP LOS and you have a fixed sight that you can utilize to scan and pick up targets BVR. TGP is actually very effective at it at 5x or thereabouts zoom.

[GGTharos]

It really isn't. You can even defeat a fighter if you do things better than he does them (though the odds are obviously stacked against you).

 

However you're not entirely unlikely to encounter opposing side ground-pounders, like Su-25's, 17's, 22's, etc, and A2A is definitely not pointless in this case. You cannot escape any of those (you don't have the speed) but you can definitely out-turn any of'em. Sucker them into your sort of fight and they're toast. Just beware of the ones who know how to energy fight ...

 

I know that AA in a A-10 is pointless

[159th_Viper]

Aye - if you do run into a Toadie, toggle the Klingon cloaking device on and leave him alone.......You will get spanked :P

[Jona33]

I know that AA in a A-10 is pointless, I just want to be able to do it well enough so that I am not helpless if I get in a jam.

 

Some great tips however, I will give them a try.

 

Not pointless but don't go looking for a fight

[GGTharos]

If I can spank a flanker, toads aren't much of a problem :P :joystick::argue:

 

Aye - if you do run into a Toadie, toggle the Klingon cloaking device on and leave him alone.......You will get spanked :P

Edited April 3, 2012 by GGTharos

[Eddie]

If I can spank a flanker, toads aren't much of a problem :P :joystick::argue:

 

Indeed. Fulcrums aren't much of an issue either, as long as they are stupid enough to let you close to WVR. Which when driven by the AI they always are. :D

[GGTharos]

People can be worse. I recall a Su-33 that after expending missiles against a notching A-10, came down to the deck to play flat scissors. It was not his brightest idea :D

[159th_Viper]

If I can spank a flanker, toads aren't much of a problem :P :joystick::argue:

 

I guarantee you that you will always be getting spanked if it was your twin flying the Toadie - fact! :P

[GGTharos]

Sadly that isn't so :surrender:

 

I guarantee you that you will always be getting spanked if it was your twin flying the Toadie - fact! :P

[statrekmike]

So I see a lively debate has formed around this topic, anybody else have some step by step info on what they do against various air targets?

 

I am not super great with the sim so I may need a bit more explanation than usual.

[GGTharos]

Actually this is a pretty complicated topic so ... the answer is, there's no simple answer. If you can't run away, get low and put him on your beam. From here on, if he keeps coming, your decision process gets somewhat complicated. You're going to get shot at. Your goal is to survive the missiles and possibly his guns until he overshoots behind you. Don't slow down much until he does so, or you'll regret it.

[ralfidude]

Id suggest Flaming Cliffs 2.

 

Dogfighting in its simplicity. You learn everything you need to know from there, the hard way.

 

:)

 

Otherwise, trying to teach you all the different ways to deal with threats will just make your head spin.

 

Though a visualization helps!

 

Here is a mig survival video:

Edited April 4, 2012 by ralfidude

[GGTharos]

That's really an example of what not to do ... so pent up on using mavericks that he misses at least one gunnery opportunity and I don't know how many AIM-9 launch opportunities.

 

Though a visualization helps!

[Bushmanni]

That's really an example of what not to do ... so pent up on using mavericks that he misses at least one gunnery opportunity and I don't know how many AIM-9 launch opportunities.

 

The point in that video was to just shoot down an airplane in turning fight with a Maverick, nothing else.

[GGTharos]

That's fine. In this case though it's being presented as a resource to BFM. And I think you just agreed that it really isn't. :)

 

The point in that video was to just shoot down an airplane in turning fight with a Maverick, nothing else.

[neoxman]

The problem i've always had in FC/DCS when it comes to A2A is actually seeing the enemy, even when they are fairly close (ie. within 2 miles). It feels like the way the 3d models are being rendered is making it harder to see aircraft than it should be. I have no real problem spotting and keeping track of aircraft in other sims, or even small GA aircraft whenever I go flying IRL.

 

Maybe there should be some sort smart scaling system like in BMS to counteract the disadvantage of playing on a computer screen.