My quick impression of the DCS Mustang

[Ali Fish]

Control indicator on, please.

 

ofcourse. would this video be good with the rudder function locked out or not ? x52 pro has a lock mechanism u see ! i thought it would be an idea to use it to prove minimal rudder usage is required. but after previewing the video i think it might be seen as an aid etc which it is not. but before i finalise this, i thought id ask,

[cichlidfan]

ofcourse. would this video be good with the rudder function locked out or not ? x52 pro has a lock mechanism u see ! i thought it would be an idea to use it to prove minimal rudder usage is required. but after previewing the video i think it might be seen as an aid etc which it is not. but before i finalise this, i thought id ask,

 

Locking the twist on the X-52 is the same as not touching the rudder with your feet, so it really doesn't matter, IMHO. I see your point, since it is easy to twist a little while holding the stick, but if someone is using pedals they can move their feet away to ensure no input is applied, producing the same result as locking the twist.

[Yo-Yo]

One thing I have notice that Rogue Runner so eloquently pointed out, is that we are creating some of our own Pilot Induced Oscillations (PIO) due to the fact that are reaction times are a little slower than what they would be in the actual aircraft. I do not have any actual flight time in Tail dragger type aircraft. But in other aircraft I have flown, I get fasters cues due to lateral g-loads and my peripheral vision that let me know when I start to drift away from runway centerline.

 

Bugs

 

Another good point! Generally, oscillations in the feedback system (pilot-AC or driver-car) appear if the feedback (control input) is applied through acceleration and the information for control input is taken from the POSITION. This system is fundamentally unstable (if you want to generate sinewave just cascade two integrators and connect their input and output :))

 

Remember how to control the skidding car: you must not correct the angle (position), you must correct the ANGULAR VELOCITY or you are off-road getting real DIO (driver induced oscillations) :) !

 

Adding velocity and acceleration information to the system you make it stable.

 

In appliance to the PIO it means that any rudder input must correct angular velocity more than an angle itself.

The good idea is to use clouds to learn how to correct very low initial deviations (gunsight and clouds). The "Ball technic"is suitable for sim even better.

[JimMack]

Another good point! Generally, oscillations in the feedback system (pilot-AC or driver-car) appear if the feedback (control input) is applied through acceleration and the information for control input is taken from the POSITION. This system is fundamentally unstable (if you want to generate sinewave just cascade two integrators and connect their input and output :))

 

Remember how to control the skidding car: you must not correct the angle (position), you must correct the ANGULAR VELOCITY or you are off-road getting real DIO (driver induced oscillations) :) !

 

Adding velocity and acceleration information to the system you make it stable.

 

In appliance to the PIO it means that any rudder input must correct angular velocity more than an angle itself.

The good idea is to use clouds to learn how to correct very low initial deviations (gunsight and clouds). The "Ball technic"is suitable for sim even better.

 

I agree - in testing I always created clouds in the ME so I had a point of reference for take off.

[Ali Fish]

ok here is a track ive just made on our server showing relativly smooth take off and landing, [ATTACH]66711[/ATTACH] posting live vid of it to YT also. but that`ll take a while.

[PeterP]

I agree - in testing I always created clouds in the ME so I had a point of reference for take off.

 

Really good point !

I found myself also often to hit the ESC button when there wasn't any clouds to see- so I edited it too!

:P

[Ali Fish]

The takeoff / landing video i stated i would do.

 

this is my first ever commentary video and voice articulation skills are required it seems. and this UK sunny weather is messing with my TIR but its not too bad.

 

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ali Fish

[cichlidfan]

The rudder looks rather 'in use' right here!

 

 

Nice take-off though!

[Ali Fish]

and the point is ? iam at 100 nearly and i did say some rudder correction is required when the tail pops up. on that occasion it was required. soo.... ?

 

the point is how you use the rudder, where when and why and for how long. how many frames or how long do you reckon i was using it for ? Sorry but ive a dynamic adjustment to make and in order not to crash and make smooth takeoff i will make it. its instinctual. the preceeding video didnt have anywhere near as much deflection. but i was not up to 47in manifold on that occasion. i have tested it and its possible with no more more than +/- 3 degrees deflection applied to the rudder trim.

 

they key to all this is the axis. and how its setup. 30 rudder curve for me. and even at that as you see its never going to be perfect. but i did just prove smooth takeoff is possible and the FM is more than manageable in any low speed manoevers "Without" inducing any pilot induced oscillations and using trim effectivly and only for level flight.

 

The rudder looks rather 'in use' right here!

 

 

Nice take-off though!

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ali Fish

[cichlidfan]

I was looking for this:

 

i dont use any rudder other than trimmed rudder (3-4 degrees) on take off. and i lock my rudder on the x52pro to ensure no major mistakes.

 

I did not feel it was possible. That is all I am saying.

 

Had you not used any rudder, you would have been in the grass.

 

My request for a track was right after the above post.

[Ali Fish]

I was looking for this:

 

 

 

I did not feel it was possible. That is all I am saying.

 

Had you not used any rudder, you would have been in the grass.

 

My request for a track was right after the above post.

 

well ok i guess i lied actually. was trying to emphasize that it is possible with minimal usage so i do sincerely apologise about how i went about that comment. <slaps himself twice>

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ali Fish

[cichlidfan]

No problem. Like I said, it was a good take-off.

[VTB_Ray]

I flew this takeoff/landing at default trim settings. It appears I briskly raise the tail around 65 MPH? It does take some quick footwork but is certainly not too difficult with practice. Takeoff assists were off. I forgot to set the prop full forward, so I advanced that then came in with more power, not what I usually do, lol.

 

My RL tailwheel experience is ~500 hrs in a Super Cub. I find the techniques I use in RL transfer well into flying the sim.

 

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Edited May 30, 2012 by VTB_Ray

[Tailspin45]

I flew this takeoff/landing at default trim settings.

 

Nicely done! Looked very smooth. Curious about your rudder pedals, and axis assignments. Could you share the details?

[VTB_Ray]

Thanks! I agree with you in that it feels a bit too squirley when the tailwheel comes off the ground though.

 

I'm using a 30% rudder curve with a 6 deadzone with CH Pedals.

 

Like you say we lack the tactile/seat of the pants feedback we get from a real airplane - the resistance felt in the pedals and yaw felt in your seat. Instead we have to react to visual cues alone in the sim, which makes it much more difficult, along with flying with rather dinky/overly sensitive input devices like plastic rudder pedals with very little resistance.

[Tailspin45]

I'm using a 30% rudder curve with a 6 deadzone with CH Pedals.

 

Same set-up here on curve, but 3 deadzone.

 

Shithot flyin', lad!

 

You set the bar pretty high!

 

...Break...

 

Have you found a solution to the center notchiness of TM HOTAS, or do you fly a different stick? I've tried it with the spring in and put (several times) and just can't get a smooth feel. (Or should this be either a different thread or personal message?)

[VTB_Ray]

Hah, thanks!

 

I haven't had an issue with the centering feel of the Warthog - it feels good once you have it just the slightest bit out of the center, then you don't feel the center notch when traversing X/Y but I know what you mean.

 

The main reason I usually fly with a bit of nose down trim, even in cruise - keeps the stick out of the center zone and I control small deviations in pitch by adding or releasing the slight backpressure.

 

I also fly with the stick between my legs with my forearm resting on a support on my right thigh, usually a folded towel. Proper geometry between stick and arm helps with those fine control inputs, especially important when flying formation.

[Yo-Yo]

 

Tried formation flying with AI as a leader. My feeling is that it is more pleasant to fly formation than in Su-25 or even in A-10.

[Tailspin45]

The main reason I usually fly with a bit of nose down trim, even in cruise - keeps the stick out of the center zone and I control small deviations in pitch by adding or releasing the slight backpressure.

 

I also fly with the stick between my legs with my forearm resting on a support on my right thigh, usually a folded towel. Proper geometry between stick and arm helps with those fine control inputs, especially important when flying formation.

 

Yup, I fly RL formation with nose down trim too, for better feel, and tell students to fly with their fingertips not their arm. Small muscles are more precise than big ones.

 

Found a simple way to mount stick using plastic pipe if anyone else is interested. Details at

Edited May 30, 2012 by Tailspin45

[Ali Fish]

Yup, I fly RL formation with nose down trim too, for better feel, and tell students to fly with their fingertips not their arm. Small muscles are more precise than big ones.

 

Found a simple way to mount stick using plastic pipe if anyone else is interested. Details at

 

mmm. liking the pipe ! nice and tidy, minimal space and mobile too. fantastic. great idea.

[lobo]

 

Tried formation flying with AI as a leader. My feeling is that it is more pleasant to fly formation than in Su-25 or even in A-10.

 

Nice formation Yo-Yo!

 

Hmm. Is it possible to have ai plane fly with air show smoke on? :pilotfly:

[Ali Fish]

Nice formation Yo-Yo!

 

Hmm. Is it possible to have ai plane fly with air show smoke on? :pilotfly:

 

not without cannisters i believe. the plane didnt have any functions for smoke,

 

what do the basterdized racing p51`s use, do they have an internal system ?

[Yo-Yo]

not without cannisters i believe. the plane didnt have any functions for smoke,

 

what do the basterdized racing p51`s use, do they have an internal system ?

 

THe general way in DCS and LO is to use smoke generators as payloads.

 

I think that in RL it would be possible to have them on the rocket racks.

 

It's a matter for discussion, I think. :) But do not use it if you consider it not realistic.

[Ali Fish]

THe general way in DCS and LO is to use smoke generators as payloads.

 

I think that in RL it would be possible to have them on the rocket racks.

 

It's a matter for discussion, I think. :) But do not use it if you consider it not realistic.

 

us folks that want to do display style stuffs really, "really" want an internal smoke system and not somthing on the wings.

[Yo-Yo]

us folks that want to do display style stuffs really, "really" want an internal smoke system and not somthing on the wings.

 

Mmmm... it would not be a Mustang then. Too much engineering to have the smoke trail.

It's not a L-39 or something similar where you can inject oil to the exhaust pipe... :)