Overhead, power setting into the break ?

[DUSTY]

**EDIT**

 

Finally:

Here's a quick vid, please let me know what you USAF guys think. The final approach was low according to the PAPI but felt good to me (It's early in the morning though). Will have to rectify that at some point!

 

 

A couple of other considerations for the break tutorial:

 

The Initial: Typically aircraft will offset and fly alongside the runway on the opposite side to the break. eg: Fly down the right hand side of the runway for a left break and vice versa for a right break.

 

The direction of the circuit can normally be found the the countried Enroute Supplement or AIP. A good rule of thumb is that the circuit direction is opposite to the side of the runway that the tower is on although this is not always the case, especially for airports with parrallel runways.

The Break: The break should be a smooth level turn ~60 degrees AOB. You mentioned in your video to let the nose 'drop' and then pull aft stick. I wouldn't advise this technique as everything in aviation should be smooth movements. The A-10 is such a beautiful aircraft to fly that the break turn is always a dream to execute.

Formations: When conducting an overhead break as a formation, make sure to break first, then idle the throttle. Otherwise you'll become their least favourite flight lead in no time.

 

I sincerely hope I've been helpful...

 

cheers

Edited May 24, 2012 by |DUSTY|

[Wichid]

For some reason I find landing as fun as blowing stuff up... here's my attempt at an overhead break:

[GGTharos]

Nice try, poor execution. Keep practicing :)

 

The overhead break is /all/ about hitting the right parameters precicely, at the right time.

 

- You started too high

- You sliced back into the reciprocal (instead of a flat turn)

- You carried too much speed on the reciprocal (instead of losing it in the turn before)

- You didn't time the roll off the perch right, or hesitated bringing the nose down or something - I don't recall exactly

- You ended up in a flat turn back into the runway

- You rolled out way above glideslope because of the above (when you roll out, the runway should end up at around -3 deg)

[GGTharos]

Nice.

 

You were a bit high in the end. The edge of the runway should be steadily at 2.5-3deg down. You put the dark area of the runway there instead.

 

Your video indicates 250-300 will work. Yes, it will. When you're alone. Decide on one entry speed, one recuprocal heading speed, and one base leg speed. Stick to those speeds with precision.

 

**EDIT**

 

Finally:

Here's a quick vid, please let me know what you USAF guys think. The final approach was low according to the PAPI but felt good to me (It's early in the morning though). Will have to rectify that at some point!

 

In this case that worked, but it should be 'as required' to roll out on the reciprocal with proper spacing from the runway and speed. Both are very important ... when you're not alone. So practice hitting those parameters accurately when you are alone. Everyone in the formation must do it the same way.

 

The Break: The break should be a smooth level turn ~60 degrees AOB.

[SUBS17]

On a slightly related topic: When DCS: F/A-18 comes out I'm looking forward to posting procedurally correct videos of carrier ops based on CV NATOPS (Day VFR carrier approach and pattern, night & foul weather, etc.). My boss is a former CAG LSO, and I know he'll be happy to correct anything incorrect so folks and get it right from the horse's mouth.

 

At the moment FSX is the place to do carrierops and we are using a mod called vLSO which gives a realistic LSO for carrier approaches. You can also use a real LSO if you know one and there is a mod with LSO view on the carrier which people use in mp. The place to discuss carrierops for FSX is:

 

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2c76mj0m6evssl6p2j824j7ag1&board=4.0

 

And

 

http://forums.vrsimulations.com/forums/phpBB3/index.php

 

You can also do carrierops with the SU33 in FC2 but its not as much fun as FSX using vLSO.:thumbup: Maybe someday we'll see a Hornet modelled for DCS which would rock.

[DUSTY]

Hey GGTharos, thanks for your comments.

 

You were a bit high in the end. The edge of the runway should be steadily at 2.5-3deg down. You put the dark area of the runway there instead.

 

Not quite sure what section of the procedure you're talking about here? If you could clarify that would be great.

 

If you mean final approach by 'in the end' I was actually low, you can tell from the PAPI :joystick:

 

Your video indicates 250-300 will work. Yes, it will. When you're alone. Decide on one entry speed, one recuprocal heading speed, and one base leg speed. Stick to those speeds with precision.

 

Just wanted to clarify that obviously you use one speed when leading a formation or as a single ship. 250-300KIAS is the 'range' from which one speed may be selected - this wording is straight out of the official documentation. You'll notice from my video that I stick to 280KIAS.

 

In the base turn if all aircraft in a formation slow to 'on speed' from the 180 knot downwind (a speed which I didn't hold perfectly in the vid), it has the same effect on maintaining separation between aircraft. This is what is done realworld in the 'Navy' community (F/A-18s etc) but may be different when it comes to USAF SOP. That I am not sure of but maintaining a set speed during the base turn other than slowing to on-speed seems unlikely as the obvious intention when setting up for final approach is just that... to 'set up for final approach'. No good to be fast when you're rolling out at a 1 mile final.

 

Hope this clarifies any points.

[GGTharos]

Hey GGTharos, thanks for your comments.

 

You're welcome ... I made them in a bit of a rush, so they're not as clear as could be.

 

 

If you mean final approach by 'in the end' I was actually low, you can tell from the PAPI :joystick:

 

1:47 on your video, shortly after your roll-out. You're too high. I don't need to look at anything other than where the runway is in relationship to your pitch ladder. It should be between the 0 and -5 lines, to slightly below the middle. Your FPV should be right on the edge of the runway. That's the 3-deg glideslope.

 

 

Just wanted to clarify that obviously you use one speed when leading a formation or as a single ship. 250-300KIAS is the 'range' from which one speed may be selected - this wording is straight out of the official documentation. You'll notice from my video that I stick to 280KIAS.

 

But it isn't obvious. Tell a bunch of new people and they'll fly whatever they want inside that range - they have to be told to always do it the same way and not accept deviations - this is an instructional detail though, but important :)

 

In the base turn if all aircraft in a formation slow to 'on speed' from the 180 knot downwind (a speed which I didn't hold perfectly in the vid), it has the same effect on maintaining separation between aircraft. This is what is done realworld in the 'Navy' community (F/A-18s etc) but may be different when it comes to USAF SOP. That I am not sure of but maintaining a set speed during the base turn other than slowing to on-speed seems unlikely as the obvious intention when setting up for final approach is just that... to 'set up for final approach'. No good to be fast when you're rolling out at a 1 mile final.

 

Hope this clarifies any points.

 

Same is done for any overhead AFAIK, you slow down for the base turn, but I would expect to see it flown quite a bit faster than approach speed (ie. 160-170, obviously depending on the aircraft) because stall speed rises when the aircraft is in a bank.

[Spitfire2170]

I am an ATC Associate at the University of North Dakota. All I can tell you is that the F-15's and F-18's we practice with stay at full speed until turning their base leg and begining their decsent. At our simulated airport they are 2000' agl, and slow from their 500+ airspeed from initial to base to their approach speed by the time they are short final. I've tried that in the A-10 sim and full speed until about halfway through base leg works just great.

[Snoopy]

All real world A-10 documents say between 250 and 300 knots.

[GGTharos]

'Full Speed' is nice, when you're alone. When you have wingmen, things can easily change; speed can put constraints on the type of formation you will use as well.

 

There are different ways of approaches, the overhead is just one of them, and this is just one of the procedures used for it. There are definitely more fast-paced approaches.

[Teej]

Also...in contrast to the F-15 video posted on page 1...it's not a bad idea to leave the boards / brakes out throughout the landing evolution, although this depends somewhat on the aircraft.

 

You don't want to fly your approach at idle because due to mistakes, weather, whatever...you might find yourself with a sudden need for power, and at idle it takes several seconds to spool up to a useful RPM...seconds during which you could die.

 

By flying with the brakes out, you keep the engine RPM up and power comes on almost instantaneously if you need more.

 

There's really no "one right answer"...you can easily find pics/videos of A-10, F-15, F-16 etc all landing with and without airbrakes. I lean towards landing with the brakes out for the above reason.

[Evil.Bonsai]

I guess this sim provides for everyone. Me, I just point the nose at the runway, then slam her down when I get there. Bang the toe brakes, throw hands up in the air. "MADE IT!"

 

:joystick::cry::joystick::huh::D

 

'course, that doesn't explain why I made a foggy morning mission and practiced learning ILS all last night..

Edited June 22, 2012 by Evil.Bonsai

[Fish]

I guess this sim provides for everyone. Me, I just point the nose at the runway, then slam her down when I get there. Bang the toe brakes, throw hands up in the air. "MADE IT!"

 

:joystick::cry::joystick::huh::D

 

'course, that doesn't explain why I made a foggy morning mission and practiced learning ILS all last night..

 

"Every landing you can walk away from is a successful landing!!"