Clarification re SFM

[hassata]

Does SFM necessarily mean scripted landings?

[metalnwood]

Not when it means surface foot/minute.

 

But more curiously, is there documentation around on how to create a simple flight model? It could have abilities that are more than the name would suggest depending on how much work the developer wants to put in to it.

Edited June 16, 2012 by metalnwood

[HiJack]

Not when it means surface foot/minute.

 

But more curiously, is there documentation around on how to create a simple flight model? It could have abilities that are more than the name would suggest depending on how much work the developer wants to put in to it.

 

It is not "simple" !!! It's STANDARD!

[metalnwood]

Heh, I wasn't actually referring to SFM when I said simple, I was generically asking if there were docs for creating a flight model, simple, basic, easy or whatever :)

[HiJack]

:huh: Oh, OK, well thats a valid question :doh:

[HiJack]

Did a quick google :D

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/flywing1.htm

[HiJack]

But scripted landings is just done for the AI.

[cichlidfan]

But scripted landings is just done for the AI.

 

Is that not the case for all of the player aircraft in FC2, with the possible exception of the Su-25T? Asking, because I really am not sure. ;)

[metalnwood]

Did a quick google :D

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/flywing1.htm

 

 

Umm, I was refering to the SFM but as to a simple example of what might be done in ED's sfm.

 

Otherwise, I will just stick to surface foot/minute

[SilentEagle]

But scripted landings is just done for the AI.

 

By scripted landings, he doesn't mean the computer flying your approach and flare. What he means is the ground collision/detection model that snaps your aircraft to the ground when you get within a few feet of a runway/taxiway/road with the gear down.

[hassata]

^ :thumbup:. As Chich said, I believe all FC2 aircraft display this behavior except the SU25T, which has the AFM. I was wondering if the 3rd party developers may be able to get around this. Apologies-should have been more clear.

Edited June 17, 2012 by hassata

[Nate--IRL--]

JBSim might be a possibility - no idea how difficult it would be to implement though.

 

http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/

 

Also have no idea if it would actually offer anything more than the Standard Flight Model does.

 

Nate

[cichlidfan]

^ :thumbup:. As Chich said, I believe all FC2 aircraft display this behavior except the SU25T, which has the AFM.

 

That's what I thought I remembered. I really hope that won't be the case for 3rd party stuff as well. Nothing caps off a good flight better than YOU pulling off a nice landing. I would miss that.

[Moa]

JBSim would be better than the SFM.

 

With the SFM things like stalls are scripted. That means you can stall an F-15 at 20,000 feet , the script kicks in, and you descend with a nose-high attitude until surface impact. No pilot initiated action can recover from certain script conditions. This is because the aircraft doesn't appear to be modelled as a distribution of masses (so no nose drop) nor do the wings have multiple elements (where you could stall the outer wing but not the inner wing). So this can result in some very odd behaviour. Of course the Ka-50 an A-10C have vastly better models than this, and the Su-25T 'AFM' is good, but all other aircraft have this scripted SFM behaiour.

 

JSBSim does allow you to define an aircraft in far more detail than the SFM, so you should get more realistic behaviour provide you do the work to make a good model. That said, there are no publicly known integration points to use an external flight model with DCS. Perhaps one is available to licensed DCS developers but it is not *publicly* available.

 

From the posts on these forums integration with ED products is so new it is likely that the integration API is still being designed.

 

Note there are better (as in, more realistic) flight models out there than JSBSim (and almost certainly on par with the A-10C FM), but you need to be good at both physics/aerodynamics and software development (C/FORTRAN/Java/MATLAB) to understand them properly (both the theory and the specifics of the implementation).

Edited June 17, 2012 by Moa

[Weta43]

As Chich said, I believe all FC2 aircraft display this behavior except the SU25T, which has the AFM.

Both versions of the Su-25 have 'AFM' in FC2 (& FC)

[SilentEagle]

JBSim would be better than the SFM.

 

This is quite true. I spent months learning and working with JSBSim and even developed my own L-39 flight model from scratch. I even looked into implementing it into FC2 using the LoEnableExternalFlightModel() function listed in the export.lua, but was unable to get support from ED on how this could be accomplished.

 

Unfortunately, JSBSim models just don't have the same real feel to them that ED's AFM aircraft do. JSBSim obviously uses distributed weights and allows for shifting CoG, but lift acts at one and only one point, defined in the model, meaning asymmetric stalls can only be performed if you get very clever with table definitions.

[aaron886]

I even looked into implementing it into FC2 using the LoEnableExternalFlightModel() function listed in the export.lua

 

We, Maverick. We! :D

[Moa]

> LoEnableExternalFlightModel() function listed in the export.lua

 

This is disabled, is it not? my understanding was that external flight models were going to be allowed but it had to be disabled because of the possibility of cheaters exploiting this. I could well be wrong and it has been enabled all along (which might explain some Mach 25 aircraft we've seen on servers, although that could unchecked engine thrust values too).

[EtherealN]

That said, there are no publicly known integration points to use an external flight model with DCS. Perhaps one is available to licensed DCS developers but it is not *publicly* available.

 

"Third parties are provided access to our Standard Flight Model (SFM), which ED can assist to adjust and improve to suit the requirements. Given the extremely complex nature of our Advanced Flight Model (AFM) in DCS we are currently unable to provide a SDK for 3rd party use. However, 3rd parties are also invited to offer their own Flight Models should it prove to be satisfactory."

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89885

 

:)

[SilentEagle]

We, Maverick. We! :D

 

Yes, aaron886 and I. ;)

[Sceptre]

Sorry noob question, does AFM stand for Advanced Flight Model?

[cichlidfan]

Sorry noob question, does AFM stand for Advanced Flight Model?

 

Yes, although I thought it stood for 'Absolutely F... Magic'.;)

[Sceptre]

Yes, although I thought it stood for 'Absolutely F... Magic'.;)

 

:D

[Moa]

"Third parties are provided access to our Standard Flight Model (SFM), which ED can assist to adjust and improve to suit the requirements. Given the extremely complex nature of our Advanced Flight Model (AFM) in DCS we are currently unable to provide a SDK for 3rd party use. However, 3rd parties are also invited to offer their own Flight Models should it prove to be satisfactory."

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89885

 

:)

 

Thanks EtherealN. I was making a comment on the *external* part of the flight model. Indeed, you can provide coefficients for the SFM (and are still bound by the limits of the SFM). However there was a question about JSBSim integration and there is (AFAIK) currently no method for integrating this with DCS/FC2 (I looked at doing this myself at one point).

[Nate--IRL--]

Thanks EtherealN. I was making a comment on the *external* part of the flight model. Indeed, you can provide coefficients for the SFM (and are still bound by the limits of the SFM). However there was a question about JSBSim integration and there is (AFAIK) currently no method for integrating this with DCS/FC2 (I looked at doing this myself at one point).

 

No defined method AFAIK but I've heard, in passing, that it is possible - but you have to do the leg work yourself. I suggest if somebody is really serious about JBsim to start an integration thread in the 3rd party mods forum. Alex is the guy to talk to.

 

Nate