9M119 missile

[ShuRugal]

I have been having some interesting difficulties with combating T-72 tanks employing the 9M119 against me. The missile is not behaving in a manner which is consistent with the description of how it works (laser beam riding). It has made several highly improbable kills against me, and missed me entirely when i though for sure it had me.

 

Most recently, i have been experiencing problems with the missile exhibiting highly unbelievable tracking and maneuvering. When my LWR lights up, i turn left or right 90 degrees, dive for the deck, pull out of the dive at 200-300 kph, and begin radical maneuvering. Almost every time i do this, i get hit by the missile.

 

I had one instance where upon missile launch, i dove in a wide corkscrewing path to put a large hill between myself and the missile, and was just pulling out of the dive when the missile intercepted me and blew me to bits. The camera immediately popped to third-person view, and i could see that the trail of the missile was shaped like a shepard's crook. the missile had turned 90 degrees through three axes with a radius of approximately 100 meters. When i checked the track, it was a 9M119 that killed me. I am almost 100% certain that it is impossible for a beam-riding missile to perform such a radical maneuver without escaping its guidance tunnel and failsafing.

 

On the other hand, i have discovered that if i fly straight at the tank shooting at me, and manuever 20-50 meters vertically or laterally, they miss me every time. So long as i am closing with the tanks, they can't hit me, it is only when i am egressing that i get shot down.

[sjpateys]

I have been having some interesting difficulties with combating T-72 tanks employing the 9M119 against me. The missile is not behaving in a manner which is consistent with the description of how it works (laser beam riding). It has made several highly improbable kills against me, and missed me entirely when i though for sure it had me.

 

Most recently, i have been experiencing problems with the missile exhibiting highly unbelievable tracking and maneuvering. When my LWR lights up, i turn left or right 90 degrees, dive for the deck, pull out of the dive at 200-300 kph, and begin radical maneuvering. Almost every time i do this, i get hit by the missile.

 

I had one instance where upon missile launch, i dove in a wide corkscrewing path to put a large hill between myself and the missile, and was just pulling out of the dive when the missile intercepted me and blew me to bits. The camera immediately popped to third-person view, and i could see that the trail of the missile was shaped like a shepard's crook. the missile had turned 90 degrees through three axes with a radius of approximately 100 meters. When i checked the track, it was a 9M119 that killed me. I am almost 100% certain that it is impossible for a beam-riding missile to perform such a radical maneuver without escaping its guidance tunnel and failsafing.

 

On the other hand, i have discovered that if i fly straight at the tank shooting at me, and manuever 20-50 meters vertically or laterally, they miss me every time. So long as i am closing with the tanks, they can't hit me, it is only when i am egressing that i get shot down.

I've noticed too that you can just sit in a hover and watch 'em fly right past your canopy!

[TurboHog]

You need to maintain a speed of 200-300 km/h with your attacker at about you 90. That way they will always miss. They don't hit me anymore since I initiate this manoeuvre whenever I get a laser warning. I then zig-zag away from my attacker.

 

I don't recognize the super 9M119 manoeuvreability that you're talking about. They miss if I want them to.

 

I once placed a 9M119 launching platform in an open area and circled around it at various speeds and distances. With a speed above 150 km/h he kept missing me.

[ShuRugal]

You need to maintain a speed of 200-300 km/h with your attacker at about you 90.

.

When my LWR lights up, i turn left or right 90 degrees, dive for the deck, pull out of the dive at 200-300 kph, and begin radical maneuvering. Almost every time i do this, i get hit by the missile.

[roob]

Useless response: use your stand-off range! ;)

[TurboHog]

.

 

Radical manoeuvring causes speed loss assuming that this includes turns into other directions. Don't do it: fly straight for 20 seconds then do a sharp 180 turn while trying to minimize speed loss. Of course this is a turn away from the attacker.

 

Try it. They don't hit you. I promise :)

Edited July 2, 2012 by TurboHog

[159th_Viper]

Radical manoeuvring causes speed loss assuming that this includes turns into other directions...

 

Quite so.

 

With the Svir or Refleks, all you need is a relatively minor yet aggressive out-of-plane manoeuvre to ensure a miss: No need to run - 20 metres or so will do.

 

See this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1400391#post1400391

 

That said, there may very well be something amiss, what with the missile apparently behaving like a bloodhound. I personally have however never witnessed it and in the absence of a track cannot really investigate further.

[Bushmanni]

Beam rider missiles use CLOS (Command Line Of Sight) navigation, ie. they will try to stay on the line that connects the launcher and the target. This requires the missile to maneuver constantly if the target is moving ie. inducing LOS rate. Required maneuvering by the missile is directly proportional to the LOS rate. So the most effective maneuver if outrunning the missile isn't possible is to beam it and then get as much speed as possible as quickly as possible. Any kind of maneuvering other than beaming just makes the missile maneuver less and thus get to you faster.

 

Beaming the CLOS missile makes it bleed energy most effectively but if that isn't enough to keep it from reaching you then you need to do a last second out of plane maneuver to try to dodge the missile and hope it doesn't have enough energy to follow.

 

LOS rate is the angular speed of the launcher to target vector.

 

Beam is 3/9-o'clock plane. Beaming is to maneuver as such that the object of interest will get on to this plane.

 

Beam riding doesn't make missiles clumsy. I assume this idea is had because of Vikhr but it's just a bad example as it's clumsy because of it's steering method.