What hapened to F-15 short range radar modes?

[Pilotasso]

F-15's radar borsight mode and vertical scan seem not to work without extreme insistence and even then they seem to the first time only when the target is directly ahead (VS). ABout 50% of the times not even aiming directly at the target works... what gives?

[GGTharos]

They have been made more realistic and have a scanning time.

 

The gun mode will require some more tweaking because it isn't as wide a search as it should be (IMHO) but the modes are working correctly. It doesn't take longer than maybe 2 sec to lock up a target in VS once you get it on your lift vector.

VS only scans up/down, so it's a very narrow beam ... gun mode is wider, though IMHO not wide enough.

 

VS also starts the scan slightly above the nose of the aircraft, IIRC.

[Pilotasso]

Are you guys eventualy going to release a fix for this?

[GGTharos]

I'm sure the gun mode will eventually be corrected to scan a wider area - otehr than that, I don't think it needs fixing, it's working as it should.

[Pilotasso]

Yes I was referring to the gun mode.

 

I just fired up a quick mission to check on VS and gun mode. They apear to work virtualy the same. They will both pick up targets if I aim the vertical into the target and wait 2 secs for the antenna sweep (one has forgotten its not AESA:biggrin: ) VS seem to grasp targets up to 30º or so, up and down the nose. I knew the radar had to sweep for a while to get a lock in theory, I just expected it to be a tad faster. I have seen fighters in RL in equipment maintenance and check with radomes open and radars tilting, they do the complete sweep in not much more than a second and Im talking about old planes here (such as the now retired A-7). Does more modern radars need slower sweep times to burn through clutter?

[GGTharos]

I think it needs more time for the tracking logic to function properly and maybe for the angle tracking and discrimination. But this is jsut a guess on my part :)

[Pilotasso]

I know that the mechanical array on the Typhoons captor (later to be AESA) tilts real fast, they even had to manufacture special bearings for the mechanism, but then again it has an processor power orders of magnitude greater, and it does AA and AG silmultaneously.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

F-15's radar borsight mode and vertical scan seem not to work without extreme insistence and even then they seem to the first time only when the target is directly ahead (VS). ABout 50% of the times not even aiming directly at the target works... what gives?

 

I noticed that vertical scan takes ages to lockon now, before it was instantaneous, now you have to wait what seems like forever, when i first installed the patch, i was online and was up against 2 bogeys, both headon, 1 decided to break and go high on my 10/11. I fired on the dude coming straight for me, got him, then turned and went up after the dude who broke away, vertical scan was on, i was just outside heater distance so i changed to 7 instead, and it took ages to lockon, i really thought something was up, I killed the dude and tried it in SP. It did exactly the same. not sure what to make of it tho, as vertical scan was cool with its instant lockon if the enemy was within its sight, but in a tight twisty DF, those fleeting few seconds where you get a split second to lockon and fire, that seems to be gone as when i had just a couple of games testing it out, it always took ages to lock.

I havent really tested fighters yet, i just been messing with a10 and 25t, so its too early to say if its anygood or not. but i will admit i will miss the instant lockon in this mode.

[Gazehound]

Ill miss being able to lock on something I can see with Russian WVR modes too! Ah well.

[tflash]

They have been made more realistic and have a scanning time.

 

The gun mode will require some more tweaking because it isn't as wide a search as it should be (IMHO) but the modes are working correctly. It doesn't take longer than maybe 2 sec to lock up a target in VS once you get it on your lift vector.

VS only scans up/down, so it's a very narrow beam ... gun mode is wider, though IMHO not wide enough.

 

VS also starts the scan slightly above the nose of the aircraft, IIRC.

 

Hey guys, is this whole patch full of this kind of guesswork? So you really think an APG-63(V)1 or APG-70 needs 2 (two) seconds for a vertical scan? This is the biggest bull I ever heard. A good old Phantom needed a couple of seconds for a lock in standard RWS mode. VS modes are narrow, for the simple reason the scan has to be VERY fast in dogfight.

 

That's why for sure, a late eighties F-15C would need the same amount of time for a simple VS than an AN/APQ-120 for a whole sweep?

[GGTharos]

An F-16 may require up to 3-4 seconds for an RWS to STT transition (you know, an ACTUAL lock?) under certain circumstances. And I got that one out of an RL Viper pilot.

 

How's your guesswork today?

[tflash]

An F-16 may require up to 3-4 seconds for an RWS to STT transition (you know, an ACTUAL lock?) under certain circumstances. And I got that one out of an RL Viper pilot.

 

How's your guesswork today?

 

hey, I guess I was just testing the quick reply box. But seriously: I don't think these certain circumstances are VS in a dogfight at short range. I can imagine that going STT on a BVR target takes more time.

[GGTharos]

I think it's a little too slow myself (it should take about as long as it takes to complete 1, maybe 2 sweeps of the reduced azimuth scan in RWS - I mean a single bar), but it hasn't really caused me any problems yet.

You also have to consider that while sweeping in VS you're probably doing a lot of discrimination work as well - you don't want to lock onto chaff after all.

 

Also lock on from RWS is, apaprently, too fast on all radar systems in LOMAC.

[Kula66]

I remember digging up some info ages ago that someone 'in the know' wrote that suggested that the Mig radar takes significantly longer to lock ... like 8secs. Are we going to see that implemented?

 

EDIT: Found the link ... http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=8667

[D-Scythe]

GG, why don't the F-15 CAC modes extend out to 15 nm (like they should)?

[GGTharos]

I recall that this one answered as being the cas eof the F-15C in LOMAC being a mix of upgrades and old stuff?

 

I don't know that one ;)

[D-Scythe]

I recall that this one answered as being the cas eof the F-15C in LOMAC being a mix of upgrades and old stuff?

 

I don't know that one ;)

 

Hmm, I want to pursue this one. I recall that the official position is that the F-15C in LOMAC was modelled as a mix of upgrades and stuff, but that the Eagle was modelled according to MSIP (APG-70 or post AIM-120) specs except where they ran into some classified stuff, at which point they'd use some pre-MSIP (APG-63V0) information if available.

 

But we know for a fact that the APG-70's CAC modes extend to 15 nm...so I don't know what's going on here.

[GGTharos]

I think you should've brought it up (with references) before the patch was finalized then. I'd chalk it up to 'slipped through the cracks'.

[D-Scythe]

I think you should've brought it up (with references) before the patch was finalized then. I'd chalk it up to 'slipped through the cracks'.

 

Right, I'll bring up the issue for V1.2 then, as well as Quickdraw for the A-10s. Too bad I'm living in res right now and have no access to Steve Davies stuff at home :(

[GGTharos]

Suckage, man :(

[Wags]

Actually, I invited him to join the beta test team, but he declined. Ironically, I think he reports more bugs than some of our less productive testers.

 

-Matt

 

I think you should've brought it up (with references) before the patch was finalized then. I'd chalk it up to 'slipped through the cracks'.

[GGTharos]

Cool ;)