Proposition

[SESova]

Hi all.

One proposition from my experience with FC 2.0.

On servers,99% of players play by flying at 13000 and spaming amram`s,what is not so terrible,or flying very low and wait to get something on EOS or visual.Thats why there is no much lock on players today.Only Air force lovers left.Only one or two good servers.

Proposition:

In mission editor shud add one more tool for birds.Birds free zone,just like triger zone.

It is frustrating when you get two bird strike at the time on the take off.That`s why there is no birds at servers and players using that to fly right above the forests.

With that tool,host can create birds free zone around airports,for example 10 km,and for the rest of the map birds from 0 up to 100 meters,or up to 50 meters.To have ability to define birds free area and birds maximum altitude.

Situation would be much different than.

[EtherealN]

Not sure I agree there. Birdstrikes at takeoff/landing are rare, very rare, at a normal setting. Yes they are annoying, but their impact on your gameplay does not happen often.

 

I would believe that birdstrike settings are where they are simply because people do want to fly low without the risk of striking a bird.

[SESova]

Not sure I agree there. Birdstrikes at takeoff/landing are rare, very rare, at a normal setting. Yes they are annoying, but their impact on your gameplay does not happen often.

 

I would believe that birdstrike settings are where they are simply because people do want to fly low without the risk of striking a bird.

Yes,thay do want to fly low without the risk of bird strike,but i want from you to offer ability to the host to activate the birds and force those "hero`s" to fly bit higher,to be visivible on radars,and at the same time to protect other players from bird strikers at landing/take off.

Edited August 20, 2012 by =SE=Sova

[EtherealN]

I understand that, what I am objecting to is your assertion that landing/takeoff birdstrikes are the reasons why servers have birds turned off. I do not agree with this. I believe that even with this feature, servers would still have birds turned off.

[SESova]

Mayby.

I will wait to see what other people have to say abouth this.

Especially people from 51-st squadron.

 

And thanks for taking part in disscusion.

Edited August 20, 2012 by =SE=Sova

[prok]

I think there is only one problem, why people are flying this way - poor active missiles realization.

You can not just compel people to fly otherwise.

People are trying to survive, to make the fight as safe for themselves. What do you consider to be this fight? No new AFM missiles will not change anything.

[SESova]

I think there is only one problem, why people are flying this way - poor active missiles realization.

You can not just compel people to fly otherwise.

People are trying to survive, to make the fight as safe for themselves. What do you consider to be this fight? No new AFM missiles will not change anything.

Missile realization is not so bad.Especially AIM 120C.Hey,USAF must be the best :lol:.

I want from ED to provide server hosts tool to solve the problem.If host dont want to use it,and allow players to play that way,it is ok.But,I wont play at that server.

Hi skills almost worth nothing now.Every nob can download crack for FC 2.0,fly low to avoid radar detection and kill hi skill players.Nobody practise flying,nobody watching tracks or analize tacview files to learn something.And thay dont have to.

Yust stay low and problem solved.Find an exploit,some bugs,and you are hero of the sky.It become first person shooting game.

Difference between low and hi skill players must be visivible.Thats not the case right now.

Players flying low,becouse thay have no skills to fly high.Thats the only reson why thay play that way.

[Frostie]

What altitude guys fly doesn't bother me in the slightest, the pros and cons of the aircrafts makes it so, Eagles fly high to take advatage of TWS and AMRAAMs and extend as soon as they get a lauch warning, fighting these planes without TWS is starting on the losing foot, so Russian birds without this ability and chance to shoot down their unengaging opponents fly low and try and notch higher bandits hoping to get close enough to get them in the NEZ and so as not to get caught with their pants down up high. Airforces all over the world train hard to fly low in valleys.

 

It's not a case of lesser skilled guys flying low and better pilots flying high it's a case of using the tools ED has given them to their best advantages and minimising the risk of what ED has given the bandit. Common sense IMO. If the MiG's in FC had a TWS that worked with ARH then we'd see more scope to battles.

[SESova]

Flying low or high,for me is question of honour.It is so boring to circuling and circuling ....around low.So boring and cheep to mee.But,looks like I am wrong.

Can`t see the beauty and the point of the Lock on,as flight simulation enymore.

[Cali]

Flying low or high,for me is question of honour.It is so boring to circuling and circuling ....around low.So boring and cheep to mee.But,looks like I am wrong.

Can`t see the beauty and the point of the Lock on,as flight simulation enymore.

 

That's how you see it and there is nothing wrong with that. I fly at all different altitudes and there is nothing wrong with flying high or low. These are real tactics used by real air forces. There are more then enough books and documentries out there that will tell you this. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this happens in other flight sims as well.

[sorcer3r]

Is there no AWACS avaiable that can inform you about low flying bandits?

[Pyroflash]

Is there no AWACS avaiable that can inform you about low flying bandits?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSTARS

 

:D

[sorcer3r]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSTARS

 

:D

 

 

:P

 

My thought was if there is an AWACS in a FC2 mission it should be possible to detect low flying bandits and clients should be able to engage them.

[EtherealN]

Low-flying aircraft are not automatically in a stealth mode. If they are notched, sure, if they are terrain masked, yes. But flying low does not make you magically disappear from the radar screens of other players as well as AWACS. (If I remember right though, if you fly too low, your radar will start selfjamming due to lobe interaction with the ground... Not 100% on whether this is modeled though.)

 

One thing many low-flyers do is basically to mask themselves with terrain in order to get close. This is of course a fully legitimate tactic that has seen good use in several militaries. (One that quiickly comes to mind is the Vietnam conlfict, where the migs would often lurk in the weeds and perform popup attacks on bombers and fighters, though this isn't quite a fair comparison since the look-down issues were considerably greater back then.) But for example, when flying the F-15 online, I try to not overfly the mountains on the Georgia/Russia border simply because it gives those darn migs too many opportunities to hide themselves and grab me in the belly. Combine with other assets holding back at altitide to give the treehugger(s) information and it becomes very dangerous for me up there since they'll be masked from my own AWACS.

[Pyroflash]

..treehugger(s) information and it becomes very dangerous for me up there since they'll be masked from my own AWACS.

 

Never took jet pilots for the "Save The Whales" type. :D

[Cali]

That's what I do sometimes Ethereal, but then I get bored and head into the mountians with the bad guys and hope I don't get EOS'ed! I have seen both sides get mad, Mig drivers calling F-15's spaceships and Eagle drivers calling Migs lawnmowers. Gotta use the strengths of whatever aircraft you are flying to your advantage, not the other way around.

[SESova]

I am sure,if there vould be war between US and Russia,Fantoms vould fly at 12000,and MiG`s and Suhoj`s at 10 meters altitude.

[SgtPappy]

I am sure,if there vould be war between US and Russia,Fantoms vould fly at 12000,and MiG`s and Suhoj`s at 10 meters altitude.

 

You meant Phantoms... and did you actually mean Eagles? I doubt Phantoms would be doing any USAF air-to-air work by the time the Su-27 entered service :P

[Frostie]

I am sure,if there vould be war between US and Russia,Fantoms vould fly at 12000,and MiG`s and Suhoj`s at 10 meters altitude.

If there was a war i'm pretty sure they'd also be flying around in flights of 2 or 4 and any low flying single bandits would easily be boxed in and flanked by the flight.

[Pyroflash]

Yeah, there is not a single air force in the entire world that sorties CAP flights of 1 aircraft.

[FLANKERATOR]

Frankly, I don't understand complaints about bandits flying super high or super low. War is war, aside from cheating, whatever brings victory is legitimate.

[Cali]

I am sure,if there vould be war between US and Russia,Fantoms vould fly at 12000,and MiG`s and Suhoj`s at 10 meters altitude.

 

I suggest you read a few books and look at some documentries. Flights might be cruising around at 25,000 feet, but once a bandit is spotted they speed up and climb. That is nothing new, faster and higher is better for your missiles. The only reason why 27's and 29's don't do it in FC2 is cause as soon as they lunch you get the warning. Although I have seen some 27's and 29's flying high like that. The first shot normally has the advantage. I remember back in FC1, 40+ miles kills were not uncommon, I even had a 50 mile kill. There were a few people that loved to fire from that far out.

 

Frankly, I don't understand complaints about bandits flying super high or super low. War is war, aside from cheating, whatever brings victory is legitimate.

 

+1, war isn't equal. There is nothing wrong with flying high or low. From things I have read and documentries, they would fire or climb to 30k+ and speed up to mach. I have no seen anything of fighters firing from low to high. We all know missiles in FC2 aren't modeled correctly, just modeled to the best that we know of.

[FLANKERATOR]

Launch warning is not a real hassle on Russian fighters if you let the bandit get closer to your NEZ before locking him up and shoot. It's a sort of "manual" TWS that can be very effective. The launch warning becomes a pit-bull warning so you can break lock early and defend if you squeeze a fox3.

Of course, this is something to avoid if you target sees you (SPO) but often you'll be able to radar-track someone without being noticed because of many possible reasons such as :

- Busy launching on someone else.

- Saturated RWR on crowded missions (especially SPO as few people pay attention to green dots).

- Beyond RWR roll and pitch limits etc...

Situational awareness holes can be anything and everything so there will always be opportunities to take.

Wisdom vs Greed is the real mental challenge for a fighter pilot.

[winchesterdelta1]

I had the same issue as you =SE=Sova. And i was highly frustrated.. Not because they are flying low but because i got killed so much. And than i started to fly with 1 or more wingmans. One scanning low, one scanning the front and the other scanning high. After i started teaming up with other people everything became more easy and my survival time increased drasticly. Even simply joining the server team speak helps alot aswell. You have to keep in mind that other people are communicating aswell so thats a huge disadvantage on its own if you dont do the same. So somebody high keeps you busy while somebody low moves in for the kill with flood mode.

Now flying alone for me is a immersion braker... real pilots never fly alone from my understanding.

Edited August 24, 2012 by winchesterdelta1

[sorcer3r]

I guess its also a question of mission design. If there are only A2A flights then every pilot will do what is the best for him.