Dog Fight!

[Mike Busutil]

Why is it the AI Mustang can out climb me every time? When I get the upper hand and have him in front of me he pulls vertical every time and I cannot keep up, my Mustang stalls no matter how smooth I pull trying to keep on him....

[Nate--IRL--]

The AI flies (almost) perfectly, you'll have to fly perfectly also, if you waste energy he'll be all over you.

 

You must manage your energy above all else. The AI is beatable once you fly correctly.

 

Nate

[Mike Busutil]

I understand I am no computer but I do know about managing energy. What I am talking about is I can be in a straight line running full throttle behind him matching his speed, he pulls vertical and I follow. I will bleed off my speed to stall and he will continue at least one thousand feet higher than me...

[Yo-Yo]

I understand I am no computer but I do know about managing energy. What I am talking about is I can be in a straight line running full throttle behind him matching his speed, he pulls vertical and I follow. I will bleed off my speed to stall and he will continue at least one thousand feet higher than me...

 

I think you do not follow its trajectory. If you perform pure pursuit you pull more G so you lose energy.

Try lag pursuit.When AI pulls let it disappear from the gunsight - follow it with your eyes. Let AI be over your canopy.

[Exorcet]

I've not checked very thoroughly, but I think the AI does have some advantages in flight envelope that stem from a simpler flight model. It's not unbeatable though. At the moment, I can get it to stop following me if I dive for the ground, and once it aborts the chase I can turn onto its tail.

 

At higher altitude I usually use vertical maneuvers to get the AI to speed up while I'm slowing down. This forces an overshoot.

[Nate--IRL--]

Ah yes - I remember something like that in your version, the AI will have far less control at slow speeds in the next update. His overall energy situation matches the player but he'd always have control over his plane, even when he shouldn't.

 

This allowed him to use up all of his energy, completely, and remain in control where the player could not.

 

Nate

[VIMANAMAN]

All I'm gonna say is I know the feeling - seriously I was convinced there was something fubar with the AI.

 

but then with perseverance sometimes it will fall into place and you'll be glued to him, and taking pieces out of him.

 

Boring I know but keep practising. And then some more. Don't give in!

 

I know you'll know this already but there are so many variables.

[Mike Busutil]

I have won the dog fight before, I'm just wondering why the AI Mustang seems to have so much more power and stability. If I want to go vertical I have to ease into it, watch my energy, take my time, wait for it, and this almost always ends in a stall at some point. During the climb When the AI Mustang want to go vertical he pulls back in a hurry and climbs with ease until he is well above me.

[Mike Busutil]

Ah yes - I remember something like that in your version, the AI will have far less control at slow speeds in the next update. His overall energy situation matches the player but he'd always have control over his plane, even when he shouldn't.

 

This allowed him to use up all of his energy, completely, and remain in control where the player could not.

 

Nate

 

 

Thanks Nate :thumbup:

[Nate--IRL--]

Thanks Nate :thumbup:

 

Just don't follow him directly up into the vertical and you'll be ok I think.

 

Nate

[Yo-Yo]

I have won the dog fight before, I'm just wondering why the AI Mustang seems to have so much more power and stability. If I want to go vertical I have to ease into it, watch my energy, take my time, wait for it, and this almost always ends in a stall at some point. During the climb When the AI Mustang want to go vertical he pulls back in a hurry and climbs with ease until he is well above me.

 

If you lose speed do you use right pedal to avoid sideslip?

[Mike Busutil]

I can correct with the rudder but the issue I have been seeing (As Nate explained) is my Mustang vs AI Mustang do not seem to be evenly matched...

[Echo38]

Snaproll. The A.I. hates it when you snaproll. I'm not good enough yet to out-sustained-turn him nor out-spiral-climb him, but I can out-scissor him if I snaproll. I don't know if it will continue to be a good tactic after the next update, but it's the only thing that can save me from the A.I. at present. I'm just not good enough at energy management in this bird, not at this point.

[Yo-Yo]

I can correct with the rudder but the issue I have been seeing (As Nate explained) is my Mustang vs AI Mustang do not seem to be evenly matched...

 

This is energy charachteristics - max speed and climb time.

http://www.forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?p=1450582&postcount=1

[VIMANAMAN]

The AI does do some funky stuff...

 

like nosing over at a stall for example.

 

If your below and out of E when he does this then it looks like he's just maintaining height and cruising away.

 

But if your up with him and manage to follow (full L rudder if i remeber...) you can see he's roughly got the same problems you've got.

 

And I've seen him tumble from vertical defensive many a time - but he / it (whatever) does make a very quick job of recovery.

 

My impression is its just a computer making the decision on each move not a human - so the best decision is made every time??

[Echo38]

It looks pretty legit to me; so far, I haven't caught him cheating at all. His energy management is damn near perfect, and mine isn't up to the task yet. I can see some of the mistakes I'm making, and there are others I'm not so sure about.

[Tailgate]

Ah yes - I remember something like that in your version..

 

Nate

 

Which version are we talking about?

[Kaned Dragon]

I a noob with the mustang, but I did notice that when I started I was using the arcade flight dynamics, and my mustang had seemingly NO power,,,,I had this trouble of the AI mustangs climbing, seemingly impossible climbs compared to what my mustang could do. I've very recently switched to realistic flight dynamics, and I have noticed that suddenly I've got a lot more power and can climb much better,,,although I stall a lot, even when I'm being very smooth. Guess I'm so used to the jet's....PS, I downloaded the game, 2 days ago, doe's that mean I got the update, or do I need to download AN update, for my game, noob question.

[Slap_Chop]

I downloaded the game, 2 days ago, doe's that mean I got the update, or do I need to download AN update, for my game, noob question.

 

 

If you downloaded 2 days ago you have the latest version. Welcome to P51 !:thumbup: Patch coming soooon I hear. :smilewink:

[Kaned Dragon]

NICE.:thumbup: Shame I can't take off smoothly. Need lot's more practice. Also a question about the taxing. When 1 pushes forward on the joystick is the tail wheel meant to act like it's got no control. I try and change direction to the opposite direction but it doesn't respond. It's like pulling some trolleys and swinging them around.

 

Also I've watched it from the outside, when I've finally stop with the brakes, the tail wheel keeps rotating so It's completely reversed,,almost like the weight of the plane is forcing it into this direction,,so when I start moving again it needs to get back facing forward.

[Slap_Chop]

When you pull your stick FULL back it should lock the wheel so it only moves 6 degrees either way. Sometimes it doesn't catch right away. Pushing the stick full forward lets it free wheel like a shopping cart.

 

 

Some things that worked for me in taking off were.

 

 

1) Change your view so you are as far back from the windscreen as possible.

You get a better view of the runway in relation to the plane this way.

 

 

2) Set the rudder trim to about 3 degrees before take off

 

 

3) Hold the stick back and throttle up slowly increasing the throttle as you speed up and let the stick move to neutral as you speed up.

 

 

The plane will want to fly when it hits the right speed. Just keep it between the goal posts

[Kaned Dragon]

Cheers my good man, will give that a go.

[Nate--IRL--]

Which version are we talking about?

 

The P-51 Beta.

 

Nate

[Echo38]

K, looks like Exo and Nate are right--I watched my latest track from the enemy A.I.'s point of view, and he does cheat a little bit during the stall. He keeps control when he shouldn't be able to, it looks like. Assuming your controls are default, hit F2 twice as soon as the track starts, and then hit F5. This will let you watch it from the enemy's point of view.

 

However! I still agree with Yo-Yo; the primary problem is human error in the area of energy management. I've attached a track of my last dogfight. It's roughly my tenth fight against the A.I. (he's set to excellent), and you can visibly see me learning during this fight. At the beginning of the fight, I made many more errors than I made later on.

 

Despite my errors and the deficiency in my energy management, I managed to nick him pretty good on at least one occasion, resulting in a fuel leak (and holes everywhere, as I saw watching the track after the fact). I did lose in the end when my propeller governor gave out. Still, I'm pleased with the result; I went from being unable to come close to getting hits on him a few fights ago, to frequently being almost-able to get guns on him. It was a long and difficult fight, and I enjoyed it. I plan on continuing to learn and improve.

 

I'd like to offer my congratulations on creating a challenging and reasonably convincing A.I., Yo-Yo. In other aerial combat sim/games I've used, the A.I. has been useful for little more than target practice. Here, I'm having more trouble with the A.I. than I've had in DCS with any human opponent, except for one.

P-51D So Close.trk

[Yo-Yo]

When you pull your stick FULL back it should lock the wheel so it only moves 6 degrees either way. Sometimes it doesn't catch right away. Pushing the stick full forward lets it free wheel like a shopping cart.

 

 

Some things that worked for me in taking off were.

 

 

1) Change your view so you are as far back from the windscreen as possible.

You get a better view of the runway in relation to the plane this way.

 

 

2) Set the rudder trim to about 3 degrees before take off

 

 

3) Hold the stick back and throttle up slowly increasing the throttle as you speed up and let the stick move to neutral as you speed up.

 

 

The plane will want to fly when it hits the right speed. Just keep it between the goal posts

 

I definitely felt in love to your signature picture! :)