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Some General Questions


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hi all

 

1. What is "AFM"? everybody is talking about this....

 

2. In the section "LOMAC" of lockon.ru, you can read in the description of Su-33/27 and Mig-29A/C:

Data Link mode, all radar systems are kept silent for stealthy attack.

what does that mean?

 

3. Same section, page 2 Weapons : Kh-15, Kh-23, Kh-23L

I don't know for you guys but I never seen these weapons in the game and I searched... is it only me?

 

4. What happened to S-300V, why isnt it in the game anymore? (it was in flanker 2.5)

 

5. Is there any project, in a future patch, to remove the sams' ability to shoot down anti-radar missiles, it ruins all the sp missions...

 

6. Is the weapons control for the A-10, especially for the maverick, correctly modeled? cause its seems way too easy, you dont even need to keep the lock on for the laser guided version...

 

7. AA Combat Question

Sometimes, well actually very often, when I fly the Su-27 and lock on an enemy in BVR, I launch a R-27ER but after some time the radar shuts down, the "I" dissapears on the side and it switches to EOS ("T"), obviously the missile is then wasted. This is really annoying, especially when I have to waste like 4 missiles on an unarmed F-16...:icon_roll What's wrong? How can this be solved?

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hi all

 

1. What is "AFM"? everybody is talking about this....

 

Advanced Flight Model, implemented on the Su-25 and Su-25T.

 

2. In the section "LOMAC" of lockon.ru, you can read in the description of Su-33/27 and Mig-29A/C:

Data Link mode, all radar systems are kept silent for stealthy attack.

what does that mean?

 

Nothing right now. There is a datalink if there is AWACS available that allows you to see aircraft if the AWACS can see them, without turning your radar on.

 

3. Same section, page 2 Weapons : Kh-15, Kh-23, Kh-23L

I don't know for you guys but I never seen these weapons in the game and I searched... is it only me?

 

Not sure about these ...

 

4. What happened to S-300V, why isnt it in the game anymore? (it was in flanker 2.5)

 

No idea. ;)

 

5. Is there any project, in a future patch, to remove the sams' ability to shoot down anti-radar missiles, it ruins all the sp missions...

 

Perhaps for SOME SAMs, yes - for some others, no, because this is realistic behaviour for those.

 

6. Is the weapons control for the A-10, especially for the maverick, correctly modeled? cause its seems way too easy, you dont even need to keep the lock on for the laser guided version...

 

The A-10 does not use laser mavericks - only TV and IR guided. ANd yes, it is that easy - although in real life, AFAIK, Mavericks have a several minute warm up time.

 

7. AA Combat Question

Sometimes, well actually very often, when I fly the Su-27 and lock on an enemy in BVR, I launch a R-27ER but after some time the radar shuts down, the "I" dissapears on the side and it switches to EOS ("T"), obviously the missile is then wasted. This is really annoying, especially when I have to waste like 4 missiles on an unarmed F-16...:icon_roll What's wrong? How can this be solved?

 

He's jamming or beaming you - in other words, he's breaking the radar lock, and there aren't too many things you CAN do about it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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#7

He's jamming or beaming you - in other words, he's breaking the radar lock, and there aren't too many things you CAN do about it.

 

I forgot to mention thats its an AI plane without ECM, does that change anything in your answer?

 

oh and what's "beaming"?

 

thx

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Beaming means the enemy aircraft is keeping you off its left/right wing which fools your radar into thinking it is not a moving object because it is not moving towards or away from you, which effectively breaks the lock. I am still not used to the new Su-27/33 radar modes but I recall you can change your radar mode to compensate for this, making it better for beaming aircraft, but then that radar mode does not work well with aircraft moving towards or away from you.

--Maulkin

 

 

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#7

 

 

I forgot to mention thats its an AI plane without ECM, does that change anything in your answer?

 

oh and what's "beaming"?

 

thx

Older jets lik the f4 have pulse radars which lose targets when they dive due to 'ground clutter', ie objects and terrain. Newer Pulse Dopplar radars filter out ground clutter by removing everything which is not moving toward or away from the radar (taking into account planes own movement forwards). Thus if a bandit flies at right angles to you (on the 'beam' the 9oclock-3oclock line through his plane) he is filtered out ESPECIALLY if he is lower than you. Som,etimes you lose lock when he does not beam, but is lower.

This does not mean you should stay low always, it is better to shoot from high in the first place.

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Guest IguanaKing
hi all

 

6. Is the weapons control for the A-10, especially for the maverick, correctly modeled? cause its seems way too easy, you dont even need to keep the lock on for the laser guided version...

 

In many ways, LOMACs modelling of the AGM-65s on the A-10 makes it actually more difficult to employ. For example, the K is a "SCENE MAG" variant, but we still don't get magnification of any level in LOMAC for that missile. The Maverick is also a bit more intelligent IRL than in LOMAC, it has a certain amount of deductive reasoning capability that aids you in finding and killing a target. One thing I noticed in 1.11 though, is that the Maverick has gotten a little smarter. :D

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In many ways, LOMACs modelling of the AGM-65s on the A-10 makes it actually more difficult to employ. For example, the K is a "SCENE MAG" variant, but we still don't get magnification of any level in LOMAC for that missile. The Maverick is also a bit more intelligent IRL than in LOMAC, it has a certain amount of deductive reasoning capability that aids you in finding and killing a target. One thing I noticed in 1.11 though, is that the Maverick has gotten a little smarter. :D
Another thing that isn't correctly modeled about the Mavericks are that the K should have a 137 kg penetrating blast fragmentation warhead and a total weight of 360 kg, but in the game both the D and the K are modeled like the D with a 57 kg shaped charge warhead and a total weight of 208 kg, the only difference is the seeker head.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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I may be of some assistance:

 

1. What is "AFM"? everybody is talking about this....

 

Isn't AFM the Airplane Flight Manual .. :p Are there plans for ED to distribute these? Naaa must be the Advanced Flight Model thingie .. darn

 

2. In the section "LOMAC" of lockon.ru, you can read in the description of Su-33/27 and Mig-29A/C:

Data Link mode, all radar systems are kept silent for stealthy attack.

what does that mean?

 

Already explained I am sure .. I do find this is quite interesting in that u can no to nly receive AWACS data through the data comuunication system but also lock-on and engage targets with the radar off .. Ummm yummy :icon_jook

 

3. Same section, page 2 Weapons : Kh-15, Kh-23, Kh-23L

I don't know for you guys but I never seen these weapons in the game and I searched... is it only me?

 

These are classified as Air to Surface weapons. The raduga kh-15 (as-16 kickback) anti-radiation missile is a short-range attack missile analogous to the the American AGM-69 SRAM

 

The Zvezda Kh-23 (AS-7 Kerry) is a beam riding tactical guided air-to-ground missile

 

The Kh-23L is the laser guided variant

 

4. What happened to S-300V, why isnt it in the game anymore? (it was in flanker 2.5)

 

Man am I glad that is gone :icon_wink The S-300 represented the badest of the baddies in my opinion, a mach+5 capable, nearly theatre balistic surface to air missile system that literally was jam-proof, evasion proof, escape-proof, and one ugly, mean way to die. I think in 2.5 I managed to successfully avoid it once out of a hundred attempts.

 

5. Is there any project, in a future patch, to remove the sams' ability to shoot down anti-radar missiles, it ruins all the sp missions...

 

That has been a feature since Flanker 2.0 if not 1.5. My preference was for the Patriot Missile System to operate in that role but for some reason Eagle never modeled the system's Desert Storm counterpart. Of course always firing off more than 1 will do the trick.

 

6. Is the weapons control for the A-10, especially for the maverick, correctly modeled? cause its seems way too easy, you dont even need to keep the lock on for the laser guided version...

 

"The AGM-65E uses a laser seeker and the AGM-65F employs an infrared seeker. The infrared and laser seeker sections can be interchanged with no other alterations to the missile. Used in conjunction with ground or airborne laser designators, the missile seeker, searches a sector 7 miles across and over 10 miles ahead. If the missile loses laser spot it goes ballistic and flies up and over target -- the warhead does not explode, but becomes a dud."

 

7. AA Combat Question

Sometimes, well actually very often, when I fly the Su-27 and lock on an enemy in BVR, I launch a R-27ER but after some time the radar shuts down, the "I" dissapears on the side and it switches to EOS ("T"), obviously the missile is then wasted. This is really annoying, especially when I have to waste like 4 missiles on an unarmed F-16...:icon_roll What's wrong? How can this be solved?

 

Did you perhaps verify your joystick assignments? Perhaps you are inadvertently pressing a button on your joystick that is turning off your radar and turning on the EOS. :icon_frow

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The Kh-15 and Kh-23 series are coded in the game fully the only thing that is missing is that they are not on the loadout of any aircraft in the MeInit file.

 

I have loaded the Kh-22M3 out with the Kh-15s (1 on each wing and 6 in the bomb bays) but I don't see the reason to loadout any aircraft with the Kh-23 series since any aircraft that carries these IRL can also carry the Kh-25 series, a more capable missile

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(504) Wolverine: how did you do that? would you mind explaining?

 

Manny:

Of course always firing off more than 1 will do the trick.

thats the problem even when shooting more than 1, all of them get shot down. Try it with the patriot or S300, its impossible to kill :(

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That's the way it's supposed to be - it shouldn't be easy at all for a single aircraft to take out either of those sites - you have to swarm it with ARMs.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Your information is out of date.

There was a problem which prevented the Patriot from guiding accurately. This was corrected with reasonable speed (but not fast enough to save some soldiers), and after this the question of interception became rather unclear - in that people meant different things by 'success'.

Primarily, destruction of the warhead in the air was difficult to achieve, but the missiles were certainly hitting their targets.

 

If GF2 the Patriot pretty much intercepted everything it saw.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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The problem I heard was that the closure rates of the missiles and their targets were so great that by the time the MIM-104 missiles proximity fuses detected the target and then detonated the warhead, the SCUD was outside of the effective blast radius of the warhead.

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That's an incomplete description of the problem.

It wasn't a fuze issue - it was a datalink/guidance issue. Because the clock on the launchers was off (and getting more 'off' as time passed), the ranges were not calculated correctly (this is the gist of it, not exact detail). In essence the missiles weren't even getting close (at least, not fuze-close or even command-detonation close)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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The problem I heard was that the closure rates of the missiles and their targets were so great that by the time the MIM-104 missiles proximity fuses detected the target and then detonated the warhead, the SCUD was outside of the effective blast radius of the warhead.

Were they using black powder fuses?

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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That's an incomplete description of the problem.

It wasn't a fuze issue - it was a datalink/guidance issue. Because the clock on the launchers was off (and getting more 'off' as time passed), the ranges were not calculated correctly (this is the gist of it, not exact detail). In essence the missiles weren't even getting close (at least, not fuze-close or even command-detonation close)

Wow... put on the battlefield before they even tested it huh? ;)

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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Not quite, either. The PAtriots were very good anti-aircraft weapons (withness it's anti-aircraft kill score) and were put to work as anti-missile weapons. The timing issues weren't 'issues' until the weapons had to run for over 8 or so hours - the original assumption was that the Patriot would essentially operate in an area for a few hours, then move (thus resetting computers, clocks, and so on). This wasn't the case in GF, and the error just kept increasing.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Not quite, either. The PAtriots were very good anti-aircraft weapons (withness it's anti-aircraft kill score) and were put to work as anti-missile weapons. The timing issues weren't 'issues' until the weapons had to run for over 8 or so hours - the original assumption was that the Patriot would essentially operate in an area for a few hours, then move (thus resetting computers, clocks, and so on). This wasn't the case in GF, and the error just kept increasing.
Anyways... such a problem should have been discovered earlier... oh well.

i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5

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