Take On Helicopters and Hinds Bundle $12.91 USD on Steam Today

[Antonov225]

Im a huge ARMA fan, and it hurts me to say that I fell like I just lost some money on this one. First all Im amazed over the lack of HOTAS settings in the options menu, the flight model feels like im flying a model kit airplane. And what is this....you need to engage the trim via ingame menu option???? I really hope in the future they keep on working on this title, because it has a lot of potential.

 

You can bind the trim key to your joystick, it's under Helicopter controls in the drop down list. I'm also having no problems flying it with my HOTAS setup. The flight dynamics, however, I won't defend, and while I'm no helicopter pilot, dissymmetry of lift in particular feels oddly exaggerated...I have a much easier time flying the Black Shark with the autopilot off, actually.

[lokitexas]

You can bind the trim key to your joystick, it's under Helicopter controls in the drop down list. I'm also having no problems flying it with my HOTAS setup. The flight dynamics, however, I won't defend, and while I'm no helicopter pilot, dissymmetry of lift in particular feels oddly exaggerated...I have a much easier time flying the Black Shark with the autopilot off, actually.

 

 

This is pretty much how I feel right now. I want to like it, just for the pure "fun" aspect, but the controls are killing it for me right now.

[YorZor]

Actually DoL is not that bad. It's more translational lift that bothers me.

[Slap_Chop]

I won't get much love for this post but it needs to be said in defense of all Sim

developers. No wonder Sim developers get fed up.

 

Honestly without a Real Cockpit , real controls , tactile feedback and 180 degrees of

vision do you really think you should be able to fly the real thing with your plastic joystick

with no difficulty and with fidelity ? Maybe the FAA should mandate all helicopters be retrofitted

with x65 and x52 joysticks and at the same time surgically alter pilots so they have no sensation

in their hands , a general numbness and also no sense of balance.

 

Perhaps you can study this web site

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Helicopter_Flight_Model_Config_(XML)

and then correct the mathematics presented and educate Bistudio and RT Dynamics

 

http://www.rtdynamics.com on how their model is wrong and how it can be improved. For

instance this section here.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure they would be happy to listen. Considering the $13 they could

collect afterwards. But only of course if you approved of their work.

 

 

I'm sure many more companies would like to get some of that action and will

be rushing to develop more helicopter sims for their fans.

 

 

13 dollars ? Are you frickin Serious !?

 

Here's an example of what an expert can do to a real helicopter. Imagine if there was only some forum

where he could explain how the helicopter was just crap and the designers didn't have a clue how a

real helicopter should work.

 

 

 

If we don't support developers who are at least trying to make realistic

 

Sims don't expect to have the perfect products to play with.

 

 

 

Now I'm going to go play BS2, A10-C , P-51 and TOH and enjoy myself.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Slap_Chop

[lokitexas]

To be fair, 13 bucks is 13 bucks. Might not be much for some, and it is a bargain price. But if you dont like it, its 13 bucks for nothing except first hand knowledge that you dont.

 

While I am all for supporting and helping the sim developers, I also wont spend money or "support" ones I dont care for. At least I can say I tried before I say I dont like. Just like with RoF, and CLoD, I spent my money gave it a fair shot, and in the end, didnt like. I should not feel guilty for saying that, or not spending anymore $ on a game. I think make an informed opinion (i.e. someone actually played it) than you can praise and slam all you want.

 

Put it this way, if a dev makes a good simulation that is also fun, Ill spend cash, and talk about how much I like. There are good sims and bad sims. You cannot lump them all together and raise the support flag.

 

Anyway, just like the advice you gave people eariler

 

"You won't convince the many people who enjoy this sim

not to like it anymore that you will convince those that don't like it to like it. "

[SackDestroyer]

I played the TOH demo awhile ago. It always felt like I was flying through a hurricane, even on clear days. I suppose it's possible I didn't set my controls up properly (TM Warthog and CH pedals). The TrackIR support also felt kind of 'floaty' like it did in Arma 2.

[YorZor]

I won't get much love for this post but it needs to be said in defense of all Sim

developers. No wonder Sim developers get fed up.

 

Honestly without a Real Cockpit , real controls , tactile feedback and 180 degrees of

vision do you really think you should be able to fly the real thing with your plastic joystick

with no difficulty and with fidelity ? Maybe the FAA should mandate all helicopters be retrofitted

with x65 and x52 joysticks and at the same time surgically alter pilots so they have no sensation

in their hands , a general numbness and also no sense of balance.

 

Perhaps you can study this web site

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Helicopter_Flight_Model_Config_(XML)

and then correct the mathematics presented and educate Bistudio and RT Dynamics

 

http://www.rtdynamics.com on how their model is wrong and how it can be improved. For

instance this section here.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure they would be happy to listen. Considering the $13 they could

collect afterwards. But only of course if you approved of their work.

 

 

I'm sure many more companies would like to get some of that action and will

be rushing to develop more helicopter sims for their fans.

 

 

13 dollars ? Are you frickin Serious !?

 

Here's an example of what an expert can do to a real helicopter. Imagine if there was only some forum

where he could explain how the helicopter was just crap and the designers didn't have a clue how a

real helicopter should work.

 

 

 

If we don't support developers who are at least trying to make realistic

 

Sims don't expect to have the perfect products to play with.

 

 

 

Now I'm going to go play BS2, A10-C , P-51 and TOH and enjoy myself.

 

Let me ask you one question... Have you actually flown a helicopter? Both with and without hydraulics?

[Slap_Chop]

Let me ask you one question... Have you actually flown a helicopter? Both with and without hydraulics?

 

 

I have never set foot in a helicopter in my life. Nor have I ever claimed to.

[YorZor]

Well you claim a whole lot then without actually knowing what you're talking about. No offence but it doesn't seem logical to me.

Now I do agree with you they should have the support that is deserved. But not support just for the fact that you're afraid they won't release anything else...

If they make a proper product people will buy it. Simple as that.

 

And no I won't make any suggestions to BiStudio's. They're the developer and I'm the customer... Isn't it them who have to do the research and work and me pay and enjoy their game?

[Slap_Chop]

Well you claim a whole lot then without actually knowing what you're talking about. No offence but it doesn't seem logical to me.

 

What am I CLAIMING YorZor ? I am showing you the Link to their Flight Model.

I am not claiming anything.

 

I am certainly not in any position to judge their work at the technical level.

Are You? If so, what is wrong with their flight model based on the FACTS

shown on their web page please ?

 

Are you claiming only helicopter pilots can comment on this sim ? And what

are your qualifications btw ? Please explain to us what is wrong with their

Sim.

 

Do you actually own a copy of Take on Helicopters YorZor ?

 

If they make a proper product people will buy it. Simple as that.

 

Ok YorZor . People are buying it. I bought it. I like it. What do you mean by a proper product ? Please explain.

 

And no I won't make any suggestions to BiStudio's. They're the developer and I'm the customer... Isn't it them who have to do the research and work and me pay and enjoy their game?

 

BiStudios did do the research. I pointed you to it in the post you quoted.

 

Some people here are claiming the flight model is not right. I'm asking people to

examine the actual research and explain what is wrong with it or if they are

Helicopter Pilots to suggest what might be done to fix it which would also involve

those people flying the sim.

 

Other People just don't care for the controls or the game play or how track IR works etc.

Those are valid critisims in my opinion.

 

I personally didn't think $13 was a huge risk to try it out and to be honest I didn't think it was

worth $60 when it came out that is why I waited for the sale.

 

That's how the thread got started.

[YorZor]

Well Bi might have done the research, but they didn't succeed on making it work properly.

 

And no I'm not going in that research. They should do it by either go fly themselves and they'll see soon enough what I'm talking about, or hire a few people who do know and let them do it.

[EagleEye]

@Slap_Chop:

If you are flying the Ka-50, you can`t see or feel the difference in flight model in comparison to ToH? Sure ToH didn`t have a Ka-50, but the general behavior of the helicopters in ToH is what displease me.

Do you fly them in expert mode?

Don`t take me wrong, I´m playing it since the community preview of it was available and as a helo head I really like the idea behind. It´s fun and I would wish that we would have more helo ops to do. The possibilities are huge.

But it`s also a pain in the ass for me to fly these helis because I know/see/feel the lack of flight behavior fidelity. My problem with it is that it seems that they are pivoting around the central point of the rotorhead and I continually fighting with the controls. Hopefully you understand what I mean, english is not my first language.

Edited October 2, 2012 by EagleEye

[Slap_Chop]

@Slap_Chop:

If you are flying the Ka-50, you can`t see or feel the difference in flight model in comparison to ToH? Sure ToH didn`t have a Ka-50, but the general behavior of the helicopters in ToH is what displease me.

Do you fly them in expert mode?

Don`t take me wrong, I´m playing it since the community preview of it was available and as a helo head I really like the idea behind. It´s fun and I would wish that we would have more helo ops to do. The possibilities are huge.

But it`s also a pain in the ass for me to fly these helis because I know/see/feel the lack of flight behavior fidelity. My problem with it is that it seems that they are pivoting around the central point of the rotorhead and I continually fighting with the controls. Hopefully you understand what I mean, english is not my first language.

 

 

 

 

Ya Eagle it's definitely different from Ka-50 but again the 50 is twinaxial rotor

with no torque. I guess it also depends what model you like to fly in TOH.

 

 

I like the light chopper because it's quick and I can look at the ground.

I do fly in expert mode all the time just because it's challenging.

 

 

Love flying down the highways etc. Of course no sim is going to match the

real thing. I find the ground effect in TOH very strange how the heli just

takes off when you are close to landing riding around like a hovercraft.

 

 

Other than that if you read the BiStudio Forums there are quite a few

comments from real life heli pilots which vary in pros and cons but generally

the sim gets support from these people.

 

 

I don't care for the larger heli's in TOH it's just not as enjoyable for me.

Like I said in previous posts I wanted to play with the single rotor heli and

for this price it gives me a rough idea about them. Not perfect but good.

 

 

Maybe I just got lucky with my stick. A very basic one. I saw one reviewer

on youtube who said he changed from his warthog to a simpler stick to play

TOH because it was easier for him so idk.

 

 

But yes Eagle. I understand what you say. I do fight controls but I can

master it by flying alot.

 

 

 

I hope real helicopter is easier than all sims otherwise I would never land. Haha

 

 

Thanks for your intelligent comment Eagle.

[YorZor]

DCS: Ka-50 is a good training material for flying helicopters in real-life I find.

[EagleEye]

Other than that if you read the BiStudio Forums there are quite a few

comments from real life heli pilots which vary in pros and cons but generally

the sim gets support from these people.

Yes, but unfortunately the most RL heli pilot`s with valuable input are gone.:(

 

 

Maybe I just got lucky with my stick. A very basic one. I saw one reviewer

on youtube who said he changed from his warthog to a simpler stick to play

TOH because it was easier for him so idk.

I had that in mind, must try it with my old trusty MSFFB2 some day.:)

 

 

But yes Eagle. I understand what you say. I do fight controls but I can master it by flying alot.

I was nearly conform to it when flying the Noisecontroller time trials. But after some weeks off, I feel I have to learn it again. Did`t have the same when coming back to the Shark, though.

 

 

 

I hope real helicopter is easier than all sims otherwise I would never land. Haha

Hehe, I´m currently a PPL-H student on the Robinson R22(41hrs). When flying and landing would be that "hard" in RL, I would stop learning it.:) Sure, the effect/sensation of "flying with your butt" no simulator/simulation can provide.

 

 

Thanks for your intelligent comment Eagle.

Thank you to, I allways like discussions about that topic. You have to understand the people who just thought that ToH would deliver such a helicopter experience we know from DCS. And for the hard core simmers ToH isn`t that what they wanted from a flight dynamics perspective.

[Eight Ball]

You have to understand the people who just thought that ToH would deliver such a helicopter experience we know from DCS. And for the hard core simmers ToH isn`t that what they wanted from a flight dynamics perspective.

 

Well...BIS made it clear since the very beginning :

 

Bohemia is billing this as an “accessible yet very authentic helicopter game.” Expect fidelity, but not full-on, switch-flipping, hardcore simulation along the lines of DCS.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/31/creators-of-arma-2-announce-take-on-helicopters/

[YorZor]

But they even got the basics wrong... Isn't that kinda disappointing to you?

 

(And before you think I'm trolling I own all arma versions and ToH).

[Eight Ball]

Oh I don't think you're trolling, you have the right to have your own opinion :)

 

I couldn't comment on the flight model, only been in a chopper once, I was 12 and all I remember is that it was awesome :D

Never played blackshark and the only reference I have in the genre is Search And Rescue 4 (which, IMO, was quite a good game)

 

So I don't know but I do like the game. I've always spent a lot of time flying choppers in ArmA and being able to do it in a more challenging/realistic way is something I was waiting for years.

[Jona33]

Never played blackshark

 

Oh dear me, this is where you've gone wrong. :D

[EagleEye]

Never played blackshark and the only reference I have in the genre is Search And Rescue 4 (which, IMO, was quite a good game)

Oh, you really should try BS or X-Plane to see/feel the difference!

Don`t know about ver4 of S&R, though yes I liked the FM the S&R series have.

 

I tried ToH yesterday with my old MSFFB2. Hmm, a little bit better but...:( Is it possible with a RL light helicopter (i.e.MD500) to roll 360 degree on the spot with zero speed and null wind, without loosing altitude? One can do that with the light heli in ToH on Expert...:music_whistling:

[YorZor]

Since I don't fly the md500 irl I can't be 101% sure but I'm pretty sure you can... the TR uses 30% of the engine power on average. All depends on the altitude and air density.

On sea level with ISA atmosphere you can do a 360 with maintaining altitude. You might have to change your collective a bit but not a whole lot.

 

Btw are we talking about IGE or OGE?

Edited October 8, 2012 by YorZor

[EagleEye]

Since I don't fly the md500 irl I can't be 101% sure but I'm pretty sure you can... the TR uses 30% of the engine power on average. All depends on the altitude and air density.

On sea level with ISA atmosphere you can do a 360 with maintaining altitude. You might have to change your collective a bit but not a whole lot.

Btw are we talking about IGE or OGE?

 

I just tried it in ToH say 100 hundred meters off the ground. But one can do it in any altitude... It´s "baked" on the "pivot-point" on the centre of the rotor mast. Don`t think that ToH is taking IGE or OGE into account when doing such things?

What type youre flying IRL? What exactly do you think what`s wrong in the FM of ToH? I just would like to know...

Edited October 8, 2012 by EagleEye

[YorZor]

Mmmmh well since the md500 has quite allot of power it should be possible I imagine. And you can notice IGE in TOH but it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overdone.

 

And I fly h-269c/cabri g2/ec-120.

 

And from my experience it feels like the helicopters in ToH are pivoting on a spike instead of hanging from the rotormast. Also when you hover and travel sideways the real thing doesn't tilt that much. The rotormast seems rigid, which is quite weird, because you can see it moving when you're on the ground and move it about.

[EagleEye]

And you can notice IGE in TOH but it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overdone.

Yes, it was overdone from the beginning.

 

And I fly h-269c/cabri g2/ec-120.

Interesting. Never heard of the Cabri g2. What does an hour cost? I pay 360€ for the R22, 460€ with instructor.

 

And from my experience it feels like the helicopters in ToH are pivoting on a spike instead of hanging from the rotormast. Also when you hover and travel sideways the real thing doesn't tilt that much. The rotormast seems rigid, which is quite weird, because you can see it moving when you're on the ground and move it about.

Ah ok, you wrote that already. I thought you meant some values as well.:)

[YorZor]

Yes, it was overdone from the beginning.

 

 

Interesting. Never heard of the Cabri g2. What does an hour cost? I pay 360€ for the R22, 460€ with instructor.

 

 

Ah ok, you wrote that already. I thought you meant some values as well.:)

 

Uhm 320 for the H269c and something like that for the cabri also. Both incl instructors.

 

Where do you take your lessons?