My first panel

[0utLAW]

After watching Tiger's vids I am going to attempt to make a panel. I want to make an AHCP, electrical and fuel panel. I ordered a groovy game gear GP-Wiz40 (GPWIZ40MAX).

 

I do have a couple of questions;

 

1. I know there is a wiki that shows what types of switches are used on a certain panel for the A-10. Does anyone have that link?

 

2. Are those switches normal switches or is there something special about them?

 

3. Are they more expensive?

 

3. Will they work with the groovy game gear board?

 

4. Where is a good place to get them(local or online)? I live in Encino CA USA.

 

5. What websites have good deals on switches in general? Basically where do you get yours from?

[JG14_Smil]

Hello, best of luck with your build.

 

I do a lot of ordering from All Electronics, I think they are in CA. I wish they had more stuff I could use though. I am not familiar with A-10 switches, so I can't be much help there.

 

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/730/Switches-Toggle/2.html

 

I look forward to learning about other suppliers here on your thread...

 

If you ever can attend a HAM fest or other flea market type event, you can find some very cool stuff for pennies on the dollar.

 

Not familiar with that I/O board.

 

You may need to get switching diodes for all your switches.

 

Switches can be expensive but there are many great deals too.

 

Consider buying ribbon cable instead of spools of wire. I think it is much easier to use and keep track of your wiring.

Edited September 25, 2012 by JG14_Smil

[Deadman]

Here are some answers for you in red

 

After watching Tiger's vids I am going to attempt to make a panel. I want to make an AHCP, electrical and fuel panel. I ordered a groovy game gear GP-Wiz40 (GPWIZ40MAX).

 

I do have a couple of questions;

 

1. I know there is a wiki that shows what types of switches are used on a certain panel for the A-10. Does anyone have that link? If it is in a wiki it came from my build thread here is a re post of the switches with a few corrections some of the original switches are 2,3,and,4 pole that can be replace with single pole switches

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1558830&postcount=390

 

2. Are those switches normal switches or is there something special about them? Yes they are Mil spec some are sealed switches and some are locking. There are references to Honeywell's site on the list I have posted.

 

3. Are they more expensive? Yes but you can find deals on eBay.

 

3. Will they work with the groovy game gear board? No Idea i don't use that board but i can't see why not

 

4. Where is a good place to get them(local or online)? I live in Encino CA USA. eBay and some electronic resellers

 

5. What websites have good deals on switches in general? Basically where do you get yours from?

Edited September 25, 2012 by Deadman

[0utLAW]

Thanks Deadman. That's some good info. A little pricey for my budget but good info none the less. There is a site called http://www.Element14.com that I have heard of from a net TV show called The Ben Heck Show at http://www.revision3.com. They have a lot of stuff there and a cool program for you gurus out there called roadtest. You get to review and keep products. There's also http://www.digikey.com. Anyone using the groovy game gear GP-Wiz40? What switches did you buy(SPST,SPDT..., contact voltage, contact current etc.)?

[BigfootMSR]

I am currently building my first Panel compilation of sorts using the groovy game gear gpwiz40max. Its a great board. The switches I am using are GCElectronic heavy and medium duty toggle switches, Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT). Its all you really need. Double Pole Double Throw just means that the switch position will operate two separate circuits at one time. In our case, that is unnecessary. A single pole will do the trick nicely.

 

As far as good place to get them, I don't have any idea. A lot of folks have recommended digikey.

 

One recommendation I do have with the GPwiz from groovy game gear, Don't buy the wiring kit. I thought it would save me a lot of time and effort but the wires are much too thin to make contact. The inside of the hole you stick the wire through on the board has a plastic backing so it only make contact on the part that clamps onto the wire.

[tacno]

Hello, best of luck with your build.

 

..

3. Will they work with the groovy game gear board?

..

 

With a joy card, you'll use DCS in-game joystick paramaters. When you'll plug in it, a new interface will be display in DCS options.

 

In the options parameters list, there are two types of actions.

 

Example 1 : for EEP and joy inputs : inverter switch has 3 status : STANDBY, OFF and TEST

No problem to use a ON-OFF-(ON) switch in this case. (ON) means momentary.

 

Example 2 : for EEP and joy imputs : battery switch has only one input : BATTERY

DCS takes status of this switch only when it's on.

 

Chronology with battery status on 'off position' and with a ON-OFF switch:

action | result

-----------+---------------

switch on | BATTERY ON

switch off | nothing

switch on | BATTERY OFF

switch off | nothing

 

Thus, it doesn't work as we believed. A ON-OFF switch isn't the good choice.

If you use a momentary switch (ON)-OFF, you'll have less action to do, but the switch position won't be same as in simulator. Joy card isn't the good choice too !

Edited September 25, 2012 by tacno

[159th_Falcon]

Get an On-On switch?

[Deadman]

Yes Mil spec switches are pricey but the great value of the list it lets you know what is really on a panel. if you cross reference I am sure you can find a less expensive option that will function in a specific location.

[Togg]

 

Chronology with battery status on 'off position' and with a ON-OFF switch:

action | result

-----------+---------------

switch on | BATTERY ON

switch off | nothing

switch on | BATTERY OFF

switch off | nothing

 

Thus, it doesn't work as we believed. A ON-OFF switch isn't the good choice.

If you use a momentary switch (ON)-OFF, you'll have less action to do, but the switch position won't be same as in simulator. Joy card isn't the good choice too !

 

You can use an ON - OFF switch. In this case, you have to open your joystick.lua file and make some modifications.

 

And I use a Bodnard BU0836X.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Togg

[Laurius]

You can use an ON - OFF switch. In this case, you have to open your joystick.lua file and make some modifications.

 

And I use a Bodnard BU0836X.

 

 

Togg, you are absolutely right. I personnaly have interfaced the ELEC PWR and the AHCP panels with a GP WIZ40 and it works great.

 

I used ON-OFF single pole-single throw swithes and ON-OFF-ON single pole-double thow switches (don't know their price. I got them where I work and they were offered to me since they were not used)

 

Once everything is wired up correctly, go in the sim option page, select A-10C sim and AHCP in the scrolling menu. Then in the column assigned to your GP WIZ40, assigned the swith position to their corresponding function after having clicked on "ADD".

 

Then you will have to tweak the .lua file corresponding to you WIZ. This file is found in WIndows/user/username/config/joystick/GPWIZ40. Edit it with Notepad++. This is necessary to make your switches momentary. If you don't do this, you will have the sequence described by TACNO.

 

As an example for the TGP Switch (single throw switch) :

 

{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN17"}, }, down = iCommandPlaneAHCPTGPOnOff, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPTGPOnOff, name = "TGP switch ON/OFF", category = "Armament HUD Control Panel"},

 

For a double throw switch such as the GUN/PAC one:

 

{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN23"}, }, down = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNPACArm, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNSafe, name = "GUN/PAC switch ARM", category = "Armament HUD Control Panel"},

{combos = {{key = "JOY_BTN24"}, }, down = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNArm, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNSafe, name = "GUN/PAC switch GUNARM", category = "Armament HUD Control Panel"},

 

Commands in bold were added. This is how you make those switches momentary

 

By the way, you'll see that wiring is quite easy from the documentation of the WIZ. The important thing is that you add modifiers properly in the option page of the Sim. Start always with switches in "OFF" and "SAFE" position in doing so

My ELEC PWR panel was wired first so don't pay attention to the "JOY_BTN#" indicated here. Wire your switches to the WIZ as you wish and you'll find their number in the .lua file

 

Hope that helps. If not PM me

 

Laurius

[0utLAW]

Thank you so much for your replies! Everything is making sense. I'm sure I'll have some questions about editing the .Lua's, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. ;)

 

Looking for some confirmation here. If a switch is a SPST and only has two connection points on the back, am I correct in assuming that one goes to power and the other to ground? I did see a small hole in the middle but not sure how to connect a wire to it. I assume shove the wire in, drop some solder in and your good.

 

And in the case of a DTS(or D)P there will be three 3(or 6) connections, the middle being ground and the other two are power? And if you wanted to use it as a ST that you would only wire up the middle and one of the other connections leaving one of the connections alone?

 

Hey Laurius, what materials did you use to make your panel? It looks great! I'm wanting to MacGyver a panel by using some 1/4" Lauan and opaque plexiglass.

[0utLAW]

Hey JG14, turns out allelectronics is located just down the street from me. They have some DTDP medium duty switches for $2.40. Also it looks like their inventory depends on what business closes down. They look like they are mostly a salvage electronics store which also provides some new goods as well.

[Laurius]

Thank you so much for your replies! Everything is making sense. I'm sure I'll have some questions about editing the .Lua's, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. ;)

 

Looking for some confirmation here. If a switch is a SPST and only has two connection points on the back, am I correct in assuming that one goes to power and the other to ground? I did see a small hole in the middle but not sure how to connect a wire to it. I assume shove the wire in, drop some solder in and your good.

 

You're assuming right. Best is to test with a ... tester :), used as an ohm-meter. That's what I did. Best is to forget about the hole and just consider the pins.

 

And in the case of a DTS(or D)P there will be three 3(or 6) connections, the middle being ground and the other two are power? And if you wanted to use it as a ST that you would only wire up the middle and one of the other connections leaving one of the connections alone? .

 

In that case, the middle pin will always has to be connected to the ground. But only works if you take those 3 (6) in a raw. Considering the same row, the other two are power. Connect them as up and down positions (middle will be the "safe" position) and you can forget the second raw in the case of a DP switch. As I didn't use DP switches, that's what I think

 

Hey Laurius, what materials did you use to make your panel? It looks great! I'm wanting to MacGyver a panel by using some 1/4" Lauan and opaque plexiglass.

 

Sorry, I don't know what Lauan is. Personnaly, I used 1.5 mm thick aluminum plate and 2 layers of 2.5 mm thick opaque plexiglass plates as you mentionned. The one right above the aluminum plate has holes drilled to accomodate the thightening screw (bolt) of the switches. I was inspired by what I found on Duckling's website : http://www.strandedduckling.com/ (thank you Duckling for your contibution as well). You'll find a lot of answers there. The overlayer is coming from Reactorone's work (Many thanks R1 for sharing ! ;)). Print the overlayer on a photograph qualility paper if you can afford it and plastify it (I did this with the machine appearing on the back-ground of the first picture I posted).

 

Allways glad to help in the way I can.

 

I'm sure you will make it since I made it thanks to the amount of infos I found on this wonderful place. Beware, it's contagious ! :)

 

Laurius

[Laurius]

Oups, seeing my pictures again, I realize that I used DP switches !! Only consider one row (sorry for the bad spelling in my previous message)

[0utLAW]

So I went to Allelectronics today and got just about all my switches. I picked up the following

(left to right)

5 STSP on-off @ 2.00 each

5 DTSP on-off-on @ 2.40 each

14 STDP on-off @ 1.50 each

2 DTDP on-off(on) @ 3.55 each

1 momentary push button @ 1.35

 

TOTAL $51.45 not too bad of a price.

 

Still need to find 4 latching push buttons. The saga continues...:thumbup:

[Deadman]

4 latching push buttons for what?

[0utLAW]

4 latching push buttons for what?

 

If I'm not mistaken on the fuel panel the Fill Disable switches for the L&R Wing and L&R Main.

[JG14_Smil]

Looks like you are having fun :)

 

Yes, a lot of surplus at All Elec. I was able to score 50 SPST toggles for $1 each. Be sure to check for new items often. I found a bunch of Alps encoders too and now they are out of stock.

 

Please note: the push button you have (and other like it) can be easily ruined if you get it too hot while soldering. The posts you solder are molded into the plastic and can come loose if it deforms from the heat.

 

Is a latching pushbutton a push on, push off or one with a cover? I found some beauties for my signal flare buttons at All Elec.

 

Don't forget: switching diodes, heat shrink tubing, wire, plugs to connect your panel, ect.

[Deadman]

hum that may work. the real switches are push pull you may find surplus

[0utLAW]

Just got my ggg board and tested the different types of switches all at one time. Couldn't be easier! This board is great for these builds that only include a couple of panels. I'm sure you could get more boards to handle more switches. So far VERY NICE!

 

Deaman, the only reason why I wanted to use that type of switch is because, to me, in the game that's what the switch looked like. Plus I was not familiar with the push-pull type of switch. So with the push-pull switch you have to push the button down and then physically pull it up? Also latching push buttons are more readily available I believe. My build will be nowhere near the quality of the craftsmanship of you, R1, and Ducky(Totally awesome by the way!) But I just want to add an extra level of immersion. Even if it's at a low level.

 

JG, thanks for the tip on soldering. I have one of those adjustable Radio Shack soldering irons that adjusts 20-30-40-50 watts. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4342791 Any recommendations for the wattage to use? Between 20 and 30?

 

Laurius, your enclosure for your electrical panel looks awesome! Do you have the plans for the enclosures for all your panels(dimensions)? I'm looking at doing the same setup. Did you put your ggg board in its own box and wire your panels to that? Or, did you put the board in one of you panel enclosures and wire the rest of them to that? HOW DID YOU DO IT!! :)

Also, Lauan is used as an underlayment for flooring like vinyl.

 

My plan is to make the enclosure out of 1/4" wood and the faceplate will be either clear or opaque acrylic plexiglass. I was going to print out the images of the panels from Loz's Helios profile and adhere those to the plexiglass. The hopefully effect(affect? I can never get those two right) is to have the ability to put some LEDs in the box and have the light shine through the white parts(text) of printed panel(fingers crossed). :) After writing this and thinking of how that faceplate will work, I'm not sure it's a good idea. I'm sure the stress put on the plexiglass by the switches may cause the plexi to crack or break. So, for those of you who make your panels in layers how do you provide back-lighting?

[0utLAW]

For those of you that have the three layers to your panels, how do you light your panel? For those of you that are not using the three layer method how do you light your panel?

[Laurius]

Hi 0utLAW

 

Laurius, your enclosure for your electrical panel looks awesome! Do you have the plans for the enclosures for all your panels(dimensions)? I'm looking at doing the same setup. Did you put your ggg board in its own box and wire your panels to that? Or, did you put the board in one of you panel enclosures and wire the rest of them to that? HOW DID YOU DO IT!!

Also, Lauan is used as an underlayment for flooring like vinyl.

 

Thank you for the comment. Unfortunatly, as I don't have a CAD programm, I draw a plan on a sheet of paper trying to figure out how it would look like (seen from the side) as a stand alone device on a desk. So I completly made it from scratch and I used 1.5 mm thick aluminum plate. I'm really sorry because I can't find back what I draw and can't provide you with plans. I would say, just try to imagine how convenient it would be for you to have this panel standing on your desk with the right angle in order to use it without making it swinging each time you're actionning the swithes. Anyway, I took some pictures during the building and I hope they will help you.

 

My GGG card was put in a different box and my two panels are connected to it. So no card in the ELEC PWR panel enclosure. The AHCP panel has no enclosure and stand as it does thanks to the switches ! (See picture in my previous post)

 

Also, thanks for the explaination of what Lauan is. In fact in printed (with ink jet printer) the overlayer on a photograph quality paper (270 g/m2) and used laminating pouches with a Pavo laminating machine. I'm sure you can find such a one near where are. As those pouches are highly reflecting, I sprayed a matt varnish at the end.

 

My plan is to make the enclosure out of 1/4" wood and the faceplate will be either clear or opaque acrylic plexiglass. I was going to print out the images of the panels from Loz's Helios profile and adhere those to the plexiglass. The hopefully effect(affect? I can never get those two right) is to have the ability to put some LEDs in the box and have the light shine through the white parts(text) of printed panel(fingers crossed). After writing this and thinking of how that faceplate will work, I'm not sure it's a good idea. I'm sure the stress put on the plexiglass by the switches may cause the plexi to crack or break. So, for those of you who make your panels in layers how do you provide back-lighting.

 

Again, about my own experience, I used the plans of Duckling found on his website. I thought about back lighting the ELEC PWR panel. The aluminum back plate had holes to insert LED. It tried this way but the result was not satisfactory at all. Intense light right above the LEDs with a short range strong diffusion around. Back lighting is a hard task and I decided to forget it for the moment. I have no solution to propose but I remember Reactorone proposed one for this purpose but he's probably not the only one. Some are using stripes with leds. Search option is your best friend.

 

Otherwise some times ago I found this but didn't try it :

 

http://www.luminousfilm.com/el_lamp.htm

http://electroluminescence-inc.com/ELsheets.htm

 

Cheers

Laurius

[0utLAW]

Got the 1/4" MDf and mounted my switches(Should have used 1/8", oh well). I also picked up this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-202349444/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=dremel&storeId=10051 for my dremel and let me tell you, when you have a straight edge setup as a guide this thing cuts like a CNC. Sooooo NICE! The printouts currently on the panels are only templates. I'll just print them on full sheet label paper and attach better quality prints. I'll always be able to go back and change these panels with something that will work with the lighting. I'm really happy so far. Tomorrow, make enclosures and begin wiring. One question, the switch for the canopy, is it

up=on opens the canopy

middle= nothing

down= momentary close canopy?

I ask is because there is a line next to Canopy Open that says HOLD, and in Loz's Helios profile he has it set to toggle up to open, middle nothing and momentary down to close. Which direction should the momentary switch be, up or down?

[Deadman]

The Dash 1 holds the secret you look for Grasshopper.

COCKPIT CANOPY CONTROL SWITCH

The cockpit canopy control switch (figure 1-24),

placarded CANOPY, is a three-position toggle switch

located on the right console placarded OPEN,

HOLD, and CLOSE. When the switch is lifted and

set to OPEN, battery bus power unlocks the canopy

1-50

and the actuator drives the canopy to full open.

When in HOLD, the canopy will stop movement and

remain at the desired position. When the switch is

held in CLOSE, the actuator is electrically driven to

the fully locked position. The switch is spring-loaded

to return from CLOSE to HOLD when released. The

switch will remain in OPEN

The switch is an 1TL1-5N as far as I know I may be wrong this is one of the thing I do not have

http://sensing.honeywell.com/product%20page?pr_id=34265

[0utLAW]

Thanks Deadman. I have the switch in the correct position.