BUK S11 discrepancy

[159th_Falcon]

Just noticed the following discrepancy between FC2 and DCS:World

 

In FC2 the BUK Launchers are able to engage you without support from the Search Radar or Command Truck

 

In DCS:World, the moment the search radar is destroyed, it won't engage you anymore.

 

Is this correct behavior or did it go unnoticed during testing?

[Eddie]

Working as intended.

[159th_Falcon]

So in that regard FC2 is bugged then?

Ok np, just a bit boring though cause now it became an easy job to render the whole site useless.

 

***EDIT***

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K37-Buk.html#mozTocId210497

According to that site the SA-11 launcher can be equipped whit a radome so it can operate indepently of separate search and tracking radars.

When you look in the game this radar dome can clearly be seen on the Launcher.

The new variant introduced a range of incremental improvements to system components, resulting in the 9S470M1 command post, the 9A310M1 TELAR with improved 9S35M1 Fire Dome and 9Sh38-3 electro-optical tracker, the 9A39M1 TEL/transloader, and the entirely new 9S18M1 Kupol M1 / Snow Drift engagement radar. The Snow Drift was a radical departure from the Tube Arm, and used similar planar array antenna technology to the 9S15 Bill Board series.

Give me my challenging BUK's back plz, its not unrealistic and make's everything much more challenging.

 

(what if i buy you guys a cookie?:D)

Edited September 27, 2012 by 159th_Falcon

[159th_Falcon]

Thought my last reply was gone unnoticed, but i just tested and got shot down by an BUK missile launcher (9A310M1) without Search Radar support. :thumbup:

 

Awesome, thank you very very much for solving this so quickly ED.

Off to challenging some more of those.:joystick:

 

~S~

 

 

***EDIT***

where can i send the cookies?

[St3v3f]

Great, at least now I know why the SA-11 kept shooting in Hardcore Terrorists even though the search radar was killed...

 

However, I don't think the current status is realistic either. It just launches the missile without appearing on the RWR before. That also means that the Su-25's ARMs are useless. Shouldn't it be tracking and locking the target before firing?

[Britchot]

Falcon is correct. From http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-11.htm:

 

The SA-11 GADFLY system also can be fitted with a supplementary electro-optical sighting system for use in a severe jamming environment, which would overwhelm the normal semi-active radar homing system -- in which case the missile uses radio-command guidance.

 

There would be no indication on the Beryoza RWR due to the optical tracking and radio guidance.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Britchot

[St3v3f]

Ah well then, I guess life got a lot harder ;)

[159th_Falcon]

As i said in my earlier posts.

 

MUCH more CHALLENGING.:joystick:

 

you can take em out whit the SU25T and 25MPU's btw, just ignore there initial launch, lock the site up, double tab on the mpu's and pray they hit before they hit you.

 

Don't forget the evasive maneuvering in the meantime, just in case.

[Dudikoff]

There would be no indication on the Beryoza RWR due to the optical tracking and radio guidance.

 

While that's true, just because the system can be equipped to be guided optically, doesn't mean that it normally is and what's worse, there's no available data there on the effective range nor hit probability for such engagements. Maybe ED have such data which they might share?

[St3v3f]

While that's true, just because the system can be equipped to be guided optically, doesn't mean that it normally is and what's worse, there's no available data there on the effective range nor hit probability for such engagements. Maybe ED have such data which they might share?

 

Yeah I guess they wouldn't be as dead accurate without the radar as they are in the game, would they?

[Dudikoff]

Yeah I guess they wouldn't be as dead accurate without the radar as they are in the game, would they?

 

My guess, exactly. And especially till what range can these optics (if installed) be used effectively..

[STP Dragon]

I'm no Su-25 pilot.

Is it still possible to attack the BUK-LN with a Anti-Radar-Missile?

... or do I have to edit my missions?

[Jona33]

Not the LN,you can use the laser guided KH-25 to attack them which would work fine (decent range and power)

[159th_Falcon]

Ok guys, to clear some things up.

The ingame BUK site basically consists of two key elements.

The Search Radar

The Launcher/tracking Radar

 

If all search radars for a specific site are taken out this means the effectiveness of the Launcher/tracking radar will be reduced.

 

Please note though that it still tracks targets for engagements using the tracking radar located in the dome on the launcher.

 

Once this tracking radar goes active, you are able to lock it up whit an 25MPU/KH58U and engage it.

 

This means though that you will have to let the SA11 unit lock and launch on you before you can launch on him.

 

Its a dangerous and tricky maneuver but once your used to it you should be able to survive the engagement 100% of the times you try.

 

So one tip i have on engaging BUK sites is the following;

Activate the ELINT mode in the 25T.

Fly towards the Search Radar, but don't lock it.

This wil give you an idea of the location of the launchers, i recommend keeping the target designator close to the search radar on the hud while closing the range.

 

Then once the Tracking Radars (launchers) start popping up and engage you.

Lock those up and kill them first, leaving the Search Radar intact so you can use it to guide yourself to the target area.

 

Once all launchers are taken out you can take out the Search Radar by whichever method you wish.

 

Sorry for the long errand but i hope everyone understands it now.

Below picture is the same unit as in DCS World, note the radar dome in the right of the picture.

 

Also see

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K37-Buk.html#mozTocId210497

The unit ingame is the "9A310M1"

[St3v3f]

Thanks for clarifying that :)

[Dudikoff]

Thanks for clarifying that :)

 

I'm confused now. Didn't you report that you're getting shot at by a Buk system without any RWR warning?

[St3v3f]

I'm confused now. Didn't you report that you're getting shot at by a Buk system without any RWR warning?

 

Yeah and Falcon explained why

[Dudikoff]

Yeah and Falcon explained why

 

I missed have missed that as I see his post talking about the separate search and tracking radars; so you should have had a warning when the launcher's tracking radar had you locked?

[159th_Falcon]

I missed have missed that as I see his post talking about the separate search and tracking radars; so you should have had a warning when the launcher's tracking radar had you locked?

 

Best thing to do is get in the ME, setup a SA11 site and take out its search radar.

Then fly towards it, you will notice the RWR is silent till the moment your being launched upon.

[maturin]

In short, holy crap, I'd rather go up against an S-300 emplacement.

[marcos]

I'll post it here seen as there's already a thread.

 

I can't get the BUK to engage me with or without it's radar (in same group).

 

I've set Alarm State to RED and ROE to Weapons Free. I'm using 1.2.0.

Buk.trk

A-10C_C1.miz

Edited October 15, 2012 by marcos

[Dudikoff]

Then fly towards it, you will notice the RWR is silent till the moment your being launched upon.

 

Which doesn't sound correct. I'd expect that it would need some time to locate and acquire the target, especially without the search radar. Any SAM experts around? :)

[St3v3f]

I'll post it here seen as there's already a thread.

 

I can't get the BUK to engage me with or without it's radar (in same group).

 

I've set Alarm State to RED and ROE to Weapons Free. I'm using 1.2.0.

 

The behavior discussed is new, it came with 1.2.1 or one of the autoupdates

 

Which doesn't sound correct. I'd expect that it would need some time to locate and acquire the target, especially without the search radar. Any SAM experts around? :)

 

Falcon explained everything.

If there is no search radar, the launcher will first acquire the target via an optical targeting system (hence no warning prior to launch).

Once that happens, the missile is launched and guided via the launchers own radar (which means it will show up on the RWR during this period)

[marcos]

So any ideas why I can't get it to fire at all?

 

EDIT: Found problem. There are 3 Buk pieces that need including not just 2.

Edited October 15, 2012 by marcos

[159th_Falcon]

The behavior discussed is new, it came with 1.2.1 or one of the autoupdates

Correct, after i made this thread pointing out the discrepancy.

 

Falcon explained everything.

If there is no search radar, the launcher will first acquire the target via an optical targeting system (hence no warning prior to launch).

Once that happens, the missile is launched and guided via the launchers own radar (which means it will show up on the RWR during this period)

 

 

Actually, it also has an search radar capable of operating in a limited Field of View. Don't believe this is currently integrated though.

 

As for people who would like to know how they acquire a target using optical sights. Well its easy, you just destroyed there Search Radar whit a missiles that leaves a trail pointing to your aircraft.

Once they see you its just a matter of keeping track till your in range.

 

In short, holy crap, I'd rather go up against an S-300 emplacement.

Not once it's operating to its full abilities and is setup in ME in a realistic way.

 

Meaning that for example TOR's are included to protect the site from HARM's that manage to get into the minimum launch zone of the S300.

 

(currently TOR's don't shoot down any type of missile, which is a bug IMHO)

 

(there's a reason the west figures the only reliable way to take out an S300 site is by an F22........)