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Is anyone else having trouble with Track files not playing properly?


Spasticatedtoad
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Hi All :)

For a couple of months now I have been flying in DCS P-51D Mustang and trying to record a Track file of the mission to Post a video on YouTube.

 

But my system was not up to the job :(

 

So I upgraded my system and found that the Beta version of DCS P-51D was running fantastically. So i started working on the video again.

 

But then I noticed that there was a new range of updates for all the products (DCS_World_en_1.2.1.5970 , A-10C_1.2.1.5970 , P-51D_1.2.1.5970 , KA-50_1.2.1.5970 ). So I followed the uninstallation instructions for my old editions of these programs, and then installed the new Versions as directed on the Home Site.

 

Since then, I have found that I can fly a mission of my own making, finish it and save the track file.

Upon playing this 20 minute Track file, I have found that in random place's, the Track file starts showing things that did not happen in the mission I just flew.

 

For example, I have 4 groups of 4 units travelling along a road. I make several pass's firing rockets, then whe they are gone, I finish off the remaining units with machine gun fire.

Upon finishing the mission, I save the track file. Then, when I go to watch the track file, at random spots between 5-10 minutes into the Track file, the plane suddenly takes a completely different path from what I actually flew in the mission.

When firing at units on the ground, the Track file shows me Straifing empty ground, anywhere up to 200 meters away from the units I actually shot and killed.

And in many place's, I have had the Plane, clip the ground, stall the engine and glide off in the direction I flew away, when flying in the mission....even though that did not happen. It can also, roll on its back for no reason and plunge into the ocean, when that never happened in the mission either.

 

Is anybody else seeing this as well ? Does anyone know what may be causeing this ? Or have a solution as to how I can avoid this happeneing as it is making it almost impossible to make my YouTUbe video while this continues.

 

I have also had the Track file play correctly upon first play, then on second play, it plays the track file incorrectly again. And randomly switchs between the correct way of playing the file, and incorrect way of playing the file.

 

Am I going nuts ? Please say no :D

Any advice you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time. :)

Toad.:helpsmilie:

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Known issue. The longer the track or the more you mess with views or time, the more likely it is to replay incorrectly.

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It's a long-standing, well-known issue. During one recording session, eleven out of twelve tracks were corrupted, even though they were short (less than ten minutes) and there was no alteration of views or time scale. Do a forum search and you'll turn up plenty of discussion about this. Bottom line seems to be that there's currently no workaround to the bug, unfortunately.

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Waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!! :(

Oh man. Thats a real kick where it hurts. I never had this issue with the Beta Version of P-51, it worked without fail every time. Every single track file I created, worked 100%.

Now it seems I can not get one to work for me even if my life depended on it.

Its a real shame that it is doing this because the DCS range of Simulators are the Best the World has to offer and I Love the videos that can be made with them.

I really hope the Desgners can figure out what the difference's were between the Beta Version and the Final editoin, to fix this issue.

I remember many years ago I had the exact same issue's with LOMAC, and was extrememly pleased to see that when I bought DCS BlackShark 1, then 2, that they did not suffer from the same issue and was hoping they had it nailed once and for all.

But it doesn't seem like that is the case :(

Thankyou all for you Instant replies and information. It is nice to know I am not going crazy......well.....not yet anyway :D

 

I do have to add, as much of a problem as I am having with the Track Files, I am absolutely loving the Simulators and just can not get enough of them. All my Xbox 360 games and PC games have totally been ruined by the DCS range of products, because they can not even hold a candle to the entertainment value of these Simulators.

Bravo Eagle Dynamics. Keep up the great work :D

 

Thanks everyone. :)

 

Toad. :)

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Its a real shame that it is doing this because the DCS range of Simulators are the Best the World has to offer and I Love the videos that can be made with them.

 

I'm in complete agreement. I used to make videos with old LO:MAC, but I can't effectively do it in DCS because of the track corruption.

 

I really hope the Desgners can figure out what the difference's were between the Beta Version and the Final editoin, to fix this issue.

I remember many years ago I had the exact same issue's with LOMAC, and was extrememly pleased to see that when I bought DCS BlackShark 1, then 2, that they did not suffer from the same issue

 

Problem is, it's different for everyone. For example, I never had a corrupted track in LO:MAC, while I did in the P-51D beta. That's the exact inverse of your experience. This makes solving the problem more difficult for the developers, and they (rightfully) have their priorities on more pressing issues (such as the ones addressed by the recent 1.2.1 series of patches, e.g. the server list crash and the frame rate optimization).

 

I would love to see the corrupted replay problem fixed, so that I can make DCS videos, but, unfortunately, we're definitely going to have to wait a while, because there is so much work already on the table for E.D. Flight sims have got to be just about the most complicated piece of software there is.

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I have also noticed that, the tree's in DCS P-51D do not touch the ground and sit approximately 10 feet off the ground and this got me thinking.

I fly in another Simulator ( an RC simulator ) and at 1 stage while we were Beta testing it, the models suddenly stopped interacting with the ground properly. Many of the models were sinking into the ground anywhere from 1 inch to several feet and it was a random event. It was not dictated by a particular model of field you flew in. At the same time, models were able to fly clean through many of the 3D objects in the field.

And when trying to make your own flying site, 3D items placed in the field were randomly moved to a different location, or just plain dissapeared below ground level upon saving the file.

After much troubleshooting, it was discovered that the Collison Meshs's and 3D geometry of the field were being calculted separately and and both were getting completely different results. So the Designers of the program went back and examined the Collision mesh's in the fields and discovered what was happeneing and fixed the issue so that it did not happen again.

After that point, people stopped being loaded into the wrong flying site and the Online server suffered a lot less latency and became lot more stable.

And that is what got me thinking, maybe it is something along these lines happeneing to the DCS range of products. If the Collison mesh's are calculated separately from the 3d geometry, maybe that could explain why Tree's are growing from 10 feet above the ground, and people seem to be having an issue with Frame Rate at around this elevation.

Maybe the Collision mesh's are calculating a different position from the 3D geometry of the ground, and it is done live while you are flying, AND also while a track file is playing. I would have thought that the Track file would simply be a clone of the mission you just flew and would play like a video.

 

But this does not seem to be the case. As I described in my previous post, units, once shot, initiate the sequence of burning then exploding, but in the Erronious track files, it seems that everything that happened in the mission is being re-calculated fresh and it's coming up with a different result from what actually occurred.

 

The reason I think this is because I can shoot a unit in the mission and it catchs fire then explodes as per normal. But during playback of the Track file, I miss the unit I shot at, and it does not initiate the burn sequence. To me, that shows that it is being re-calculated in the track file and the location of my bullett strikes are being calculated to a different location. And because it is calculating live what happened, it deems that I missed the vehicle and the burn sequence does not initiate.

This seems very much like the problem we were having in the other simulator. As when you played back one of the replays from that program, the same sort of thing would happen.

The model was sunk into the ground only 1 inch when you flew, but when you play back the replay file, it was in random depths every time.

I may be waaaaay off base with this idea, but it does seem to be something that could be causeing the issue we see with the Track files.

I am an Engineer, but unfortunately, I'm not a software engineer so I do not proclaim to know exactly what I am talking about. But its worth a mention I think.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Its a great relief to know that I have not mucked anything up and nor am I going crazy.....yet. :D

Toad :)


Edited by Spasticatedtoad
Bad Spelling.
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I would have thought that the Track file would simply be a clone of the mission you just flew and would play like a video.

 

No; if it were, the file would be much larger. Other sim-games I've flown had more data stored, and less re-produced with the engine, which made for larger track files, but also less chance of anything being screwed up.

 

Rise of Flight's track system was good. The files tended to be relatively big, about ten megabytes for a short track, but I don't recall there ever being any desynch, except for between sim versions. (And even then, they were usually compatible; only a major change would cause a problem.)

 

DCS's track system is the very most troublesome of all of the replay systems I've used in any game. Easily the worst aspect of this otherwise-stellar sim. The one benefit is tiny filesizes, but, I have plenty of room on my hard-drive, and I'd much rather have a large file than a corrupted replay, because a recorded fight, once lost, can never be reproduced. It's gone forever, and most of my recorded fights are lost like this.

 

But, as I said, this discussion is kind of moot, because there are many other things which also need to be worked on--fixed, improved, and added--and there simply aren't the resources there to do everything. P.C. flight sims have just about the highest development costs and lowest sales figures of any kind of game out there, so we can't reasonably expect a high-fi P.C. flight sim to have the level of polish of a big-budget blockbuster game.


Edited by Echo38
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I couldn't agree more...

 

No; if it were, the file would be much larger. Other sim-games I've flown had more data stored, and less re-produced with the engine, which made for larger track files, but also less chance of anything being screwed up.

 

Rise of Flight's track system was good. The files tended to be relatively big, about ten megabytes for a short track, but I don't recall there ever being any desynch, except for between sim versions. (And even then, they were usually compatible; only a major change would cause a problem.)

 

DCS's track system is the very most troublesome of all of the replay systems I've used in any game. Easily the worst aspect of this otherwise-stellar sim. The one benefit is tiny filesizes, but, I have plenty of room on my hard-drive, and I'd much rather have a large file than a corrupted replay, because a recorded fight, once lost, can never be reproduced. It's gone forever, and most of my recorded fights are lost like this.

 

But, as I said, this discussion is kind of moot, because there are many other things which also need to be worked on--fixed, improved, and added--and there simply aren't the resources there to do everything. P.C. flight sims have just about the highest development costs and lowest sales figures of any kind of game out there, so we can't reasonably expect a high-fi P.C. flight sim to have the level of polish of a big-budget blockbuster game.

 

I agree with you 100%. I do not expect a resolution to this issue any time soon as the developers have a lot on their hands at the moment working on 3 different titles at once.

 

I only mentioned the issue's I see because I had experienced them before and I know when I am working on a big project, I can overlook the simplest of things right up until I show someone else the end result and they immediately point out the fault I kept overlooking. It might not be something ED looks into immediately, but I thought I would record the issue's I see here in case in the future when things slow down, ED may be able to read this and check it out to see how wrong I am :D

 

As an interesting side note, after posting my previous reply, I was thinking about the difference's between the Beta version of DCS P-51 and the recent version that was released.

Thats when I realized that before changing my HDD to an SSD, I backed up all of my Mission and Track files from the Beta Version of P-51 to an external drive.

 

So I grabbed one of the Track files I created with the Beta version of the Software and loaded it into DCS P-51 and played it.

 

Sure enough, I was right, the tree's do touch the ground ( or go so close you can not tell they are not touching the ground ) and it plays 100% correct. But upon loading a Track file that was created in the latest version of DCS P-51 ( a file that previously played fine ), the Trees were back to being around 10 feet off the ground and the Track file actually played in a corrupt fashion showing me missing targets and clipping the ground.

 

I think if the old Beta track file plays correctly, then I am just going to have to make my video from that file and be happy I was able to create it at all.

 

Thanks again for all your input.

If the video goes well, I'll post a link to it in here or the thread that is titled "Show me your breathtaking AG skills! ". Even though my skills are not breathtaking, I do like the video that I may be able to make.

 

Yours Sincerely

Toad. :)

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Indeed, this also happened to me when I was making the VH VFAT promo...

 

It showed myself and crashing into each other after the first loop (10 minutes after take off) which never happened, we continued to fly for another 55 minutes after the crash that never happened...

 

track of the same flight worked perfectly!


Edited by SkateZilla

Virtual Horsemen - Right Wing (P-51)  - 2008... 

Virtual Ultimate Fighters - Lead (P-47) - 2020...

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If the same track is recorded from an early build, it may not replay properly. You may need to revert to the recording build or record a new track using the new build (gold atm)

 

Few reminders regarding tracks:

 

anything longer than 30 mins will not replay properly, specially when during the actual flight, you shift views to outside the cockpit.

 

for best results, review the track, ensure it is of the same events that happened, and render it.

 

then replay it, and unpause only at one desired view (F2-12), then keep this view, as long as its the same button (only one view per track sorta speak), play it, and save the track again and render it on its own. On my i5 2.4 GHz, it takes a day and a half to render a 30 min clip using standard settings (no HDR, etc..). more amenities means more time the track will take to render.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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Even when you "do everything right," that is, follow all of the advice which is commonly believed to minimize the chances of track corruption, you can still end up with a very high chance of corruption. It's almost entirely out of the user's control. Even with carefully controlled conditions, I once lost 11 out of 12 tracks. ~5-minute tracks, no external views, no time compression, no modifications after the fact, etc. And they still had a ~93% corruption rate for that recording session. : /

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For these virtual demo teams I think the only way around it is real time recording/editing on the fly, having a "virtual" camera person in "spectators" switching views. Seems like a lot of set ups, choreography and editing involved. In cockpit might be an issue unless you can pull it from the 'local" trk and edit it in.

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For these virtual demo teams I think the only way around it is real time recording/editing on the fly, having a "virtual" camera person in "spectators" switching views. Seems like a lot of set ups, choreography and editing involved. In cockpit might be an issue unless you can pull it from the 'local" trk and edit it in.

 

That's a good idea Tailgate - I had these issues with IL2 back in the day, and resorted to 'live fraps' as the only solution - laborious but the only way to guarantee fidelity then.

 

I was extremely & pleasantly surprised when the DCS-51D beta tracks appeared to have excellent fidelity in my experience - haven't spotted a single problem yet - and I keep a lot of tracks.

 

For me track fidelity is a BIG issue - not a show stopper - DCS P51D is far too good for that! But still a big issue.

 

It was this problem principally, while I was along way into learning the DCS Hog systems that made me go try COD (big mistake). Must give the amazing Shark another go one day, ho hum!

 

Watching the track after a successful flight is awesome, think it was Falcon 4 (?) when I first experienced this genius idea by software devs!

 

You can really learn from tracks, not to mention just be entertained by them. It's disappointing to hear people are have track problems with the Final release.

 

Can anyone advise on how you can run two versions from one machine and have the option as to which one you use? Is this possible even?

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@ WildBillKelsoe. Thankyou very much for your suggestions on how to ( maybe ) record a successful video using the track files. I think I may have lucked-out because the track file that I created in the beta Version of DCS P-51D has worked perfectly and has not corrupted even slightly. Playing it and moving the camera many times, did not upset the track file one bit and I have been able to create the video I was after. I just finished rendering it and I think it has turned out pretty good.

Thanks again for your tips and advice, I will certainly be trying that with my next video.

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@Echo38

Wow! The odd's are certainly stacked against us when it comes to free promotion of these products on youtube. People really enjoy watching my DCS BlackShark video "Toad Get's Hit Hard" , but I can guarantee, no matter how much people like that video, they don't enjoy it anywhere near as much as I enjoy making videos in the DCS Range of products.

When you compare the end resulting videos of DCS, to the track files I have recorded in the RC sim, you can see that the RC sim's track files work perfectly.....but compared to DCS.....they are dull as dirt. :D

You can fly the simplest of missions in DCS, yet by changing a few camera's, the video can make you look like a star.


Edited by Spasticatedtoad
Whoops. Forgot to mention who I was responding to.
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@ Viamanaman

Oh man! That would be soooo sweet if we could run BOTH the Beta and the final version on the same system. With the Success I seem to be having with the Track files from the Beta version, I would start pumping out videos, like Texas Pumps out Oil. :D

I am severely addicted to making videos for DCS and much like any other person with a severe addiction, I get frustrated if I can't get my Fix . :D

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@ Air Wolf

Isn't it disapointing to see a wonderful Track file ruined for no good reason ?

Imagine how I felt when after around 2 months trying to make a video on a weak system, I decided to beef up my PC once and for all so I can get this video out.

I spent the $1000 I didn't have. Upgraded to the new version of DCS, only to find that now the odd's of me getting the video out, was only just slightly better than me winning an American Lottery ( I live in Australia and don't buy lottery tickets in other countries ). So you can see my odd's were not looking good. I am glad after all that work, I was finally able to make the video and I will be posting it tonight. It's going to take about 10 hours to upload it so it may not be available to view until the day after tomorrow at least. :(

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Thankyou all for your prompt replies and fantastic hints and tips.

I have only ever been a member of one other forum, but left due to Abuse, Accusations, and having my account hacked. All because I dared to suggest that it's about time they stopped adding eye candy to the program and started to work on the reliability of the Program.

Eye Candy is no good if it runs like garbage.

Thankfully none of that applies to this Forum, the members or the programs that this forum supports.

Thank you all for being decent, considerate and very helpful. After my previous experience with forums, I was expecting flame wars and abuse.

Not kindness and Actaul Help :O

Thanks Everyone :)

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@ Air Wolf

Isn't it disapointing to see a wonderful Track file ruined for no good reason ?

Imagine how I felt when after around 2 months trying to make a video on a weak system, I decided to beef up my PC once and for all so I can get this video out.[/Quote]

 

Agree:thumbup:

[/Table]

Recruiting for Aerobatic Team/Fighter Group...

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