Landing Nightmare

[tusler]

Hi,

I use to be able to land and even do a touch and go, very crudely but it worked when it was beta. I have been flying daily and I can take off ok, even without adjusting rudder trim first, yes I have auto rudder unchecked in options,.

But when I try to land i bounce every time. I am using the Hotas Warthog and I notice that the joystick is rather stiff and difficult to put in minor control inputs but I don't know what I can do about it.

If the real aircraft is this difficult to land I know the pilots are the best pilots in the world hands down.

Anyone else having this problem with the warthog stick?

Thanks:joystick:

[159th_Viper]

No problems here with the WH.

 

Post a track and we can see how best to assist and provide possible pointers for you. Personally I have found that one of the best runways to practice on is Min 'Vody - it is freakishly long, which gives you more than enough time to practice your rate of descent, vital for preventing bouncing.

 

I assume you are referring to a two-pointer landing, yeah?

[tusler]

Thanks for the response, here is a track,yea, yea I know the approach is so bad they don't make words to describe it but I'm in a hurry cause it is late.

The problem of bouncing is very evident though. i have actually some real world flying experience and I am glad I never bounced like that for real.

Thanks ahead of time for the free advice :)

Bounce.trk

[shockman]

I did not check the track - I am typing this on my laptop - but from my own limited experience I can tell you that I was bouncing hard during landing when I did not perform a 3 point landing. I often thought that the nose was already high enough but I still had to pull it even higher :).

[Rusty_M]

Sounds like you might need to lubricate your stick (oo err.). There's a thread on how to do that somewhere in the input/output section. I've been thinking of looking into that myself.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

What you are describing is probably a too fast landing and not performing adequate flaring. For joystick input use curves, not direct input, you set it on controls.

 

The problem in bouncing is probably you are trying to get aircraft to ground, and you don't have to put it on ground, but at last moment you have to try "she don't touch the ground" keep stick back, that's a flaring and it is used to slow down aircraft while inflight and not on ground with brakes or something like that. With the bouncing you have also another problem, if you bounce twice the third usually you break the aircraft, you shouldn't try to land when aircraft bounces. So, don't try to "put her slowly" on ground but let her slow down inflight while 1-2 feet or so above ground (flaring) until she doesn't fly any more and falls (watch flaring altitude!) and approach at 120-130mph, not more. With that aircraft will fall over ground with no speed so no bouncing.

 

S!

[Exorcet]

I agree with the above, I had more success coming in low, but not quite landing and then just bleeding off speed. You want to make the plane practically flying level just before touch down.

 

I'm also using a X52, so the HOTAS might be part of the issue.

[Slap_Chop]

You need to come in with speed and power just as stated above. Having altitude at too low speed = shudder stall and plop onto tarmac then bounce.

 

 

Fly level down the runway and drop the throttle gradually to touch down. Just before touchdown flare and you're golden.

 

 

Trying two wheel landings seems to end in disaster for me.

[mmaruda]

It's not the HOTAS, it's the way you approach. I usually do well on landing, but in some scenarios the plane feels different and you need to adjust.

 

There is an instant action scenario with an evening landing on final approach. With this I crash 60% of the time. When normally the plane seems to glide well, here it falls like a brick, bounces off the runway and crashes. It's obviously possible to land, but more power is required and flaring is just weird. You need to go straight and level above the strip and reduce power to gently touch down. I would assume this is due to fuel quantity/wind conditions or something. Anyway practice, practice, practice.

 

Also, the X-52, while it does well on default setting in other sims, with DCS you need to adjust the curves. I discovered it recently with Black Shark as I could not fly properly without 'bumps', smoothing curves did the trick.

[tusler]

OK then, I have plenty to train on. Thanks for the insights. Playing with stick curves is not what I usually do however I did put a curve in the pitch because I was stalling so much. So I am going to practice get the approach right which in this plane is difficult and get lower, slower, and try to let the plane settle onto the runway instead of flying it on the runway.

Thanks to all

[Napa]

Better to try a 3 point landing (all gears touching at the same time). It will bounce a bit of course until you practice more, but the hardest part is not the touchdown, is to keep the aircraft in the runway until you stop. :P

[mmaruda]

That's actually easy, once you remember to pull a little on the stick to lock the tail-wheel. Too much throttle (if any at all), and too much speed will also cause problems

[ophiuchus]

tusler, I've just checked your track, and it seems you perform touchdown with way too much speed. 150 mph is too fast as for my (little) experience with DCS. I use only cyborg evo, and didn't change anything with curves, but landing usualy works fine everytime for me. Touch down at 90mph and you won't experience any high bounces ;)

[Yo-Yo]

tusler, I've just checked your track, and it seems you perform touchdown with way too much speed. 150 mph is too fast as for my (little) experience with DCS. I use only cyborg evo, and didn't change anything with curves, but landing usualy works fine everytime for me. Touch down at 90mph and you won't experience any high bounces ;)

 

2 Tusler

 

150 mph is too much even for stabilised approach! 130 mph, 25 inches, then reduce to 16-18 and flare not more to 50 fpm VSI (after you practice more you will perform up to 100-150 fpm). Then watch your altitude and after the plane touches the ground slightly move stick forward.

The key point is to feel when the plane is on the ground. Having no tactile feeling you have to watch airplane behaviour: the plane usually slightly yawing or pitching itself, and it's the moment to push the stick forward to stick it to the runway.

 

Begin to practice with 30% of fuel and use civilian plane then you can handle it up to full TO weight.

 

The lighter is the plane the more it is tolerent to your mistakes.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Yo-Yo

[tusler]

Yahoo I finally got it. I also found something quite interesting.

When I try to land flying the P51-Camp-1.miz I have all kinds of trouble.

When I create a mission in the editor and fly the P51 handles completely differently and I have no trouble landing.

There might be something off with that default startup and takeoff miz.

It sure seems like it.

Any way i can get on to better stuff now that I can consistently land it in 1 piece :D

Thanks for all you guys help :thumbup:

[Yo-Yo]

Yahoo I finally got it. I also found something quite interesting.

When I try to land flying the P51-Camp-1.miz I have all kinds of trouble.

When I create a mission in the editor and fly the P51 handles completely differently and I have no trouble landing.

There might be something off with that default startup and takeoff miz.

It sure seems like it.

Any way i can get on to better stuff now that I can consistently land it in 1 piece :D

Thanks for all you guys help :thumbup:

 

Maybe you have high turbulence?

I'll try the mission though...

 

Taxiing and take off? I sughgest we have different names for the mission as I am using Russian version now.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Yo-Yo

[159th_Viper]

Maybe you have high turbulence?

I'll try the mission though....

 

Yo-Yo, download the track and take control prior to turning onto finals and see if you can get her down in a two-pointer.......I must admit that I cannot (after two or three attempts) as even the slightest touch/descent rate balloons her into the air. No problems with three-pointer however. Has to be the weather in this particular mission but even then should not contribute to such bouncing I would have thought.

 

Maybe I'm just rusty :D

[Yo-Yo]

Yo-Yo, download the track and take control prior to turning onto finals and see if you can get her down in a two-pointer.......I must admit that I cannot (after two or three attempts) as even the slightest touch/descent rate balloons her into the air. No problems with three-pointer however. Has to be the weather in this particular mission but even then should not contribute to such bouncing I would have thought.

 

Maybe I'm just rusty :D

 

I can not play the track as I am dealing with the newest version/

 

What is the mission? Describe please the mission task and I will find it in my folders.

 

I can see only one reason - full tanks and rear tank do make the task harder.

 

It could be ME screenshot.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Yo-Yo

[KAGZakhar]

Using TM Warthog HOTAS at video below.

 

 

There are side wind and turbulens at both case.

No problem.

Edited October 29, 2012 by =KAG=Zakhar

[Yo-Yo]

Using TM Warthog HOTAS at video below.

 

 

There are side wind and turbulens at both case.

No problem.

 

It explains all things :) if you have turbulence be ready to react to surprises... :)

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Yo-Yo, download the track and take control prior to turning onto finals and see if you can get her down in a two-pointer.......I must admit that I cannot (after two or three attempts) as even the slightest touch/descent rate balloons her into the air. No problems with three-pointer however. Has to be the weather in this particular mission but even then should not contribute to such bouncing I would have thought.

That sounds like a cold high pressure and high density day (here we call that "flying on butter") when aircraft don't want to descent at all. Is atmosphere modelled to that point in DCS?

 

S!

[159th_Viper]

That sounds like a cold high pressure and high density day (here we call that "flying on butter") when aircraft don't want to descent at all. Is atmosphere modelled to that point in DCS?

 

S!

 

Quite right - sounds like what it could be. I bring her in and when I'm a couple of feet off the ground you can feel the 'ground-effect' and it's like hitting a wall of marshmallows keeping her off the ground :D

[VH-Rock]

it's like hitting a wall of marshmallows keeping her off the ground :D

 

Shame you're not in a B-17 - Lower me out of the bomb bay and I'll fix that problem for you! :lol:

[Rusty_M]

Maybe I'm just rusty :D

 

Ahem!