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Tank armor simulation and laser questions


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Hey guys,

 

there are a lot of rumors on this topic : armor simulation.

 

1.

So - is the armor of tanks being simulated? Or do they just have a healthbar?

 

If it's just a health bar does it even matter whether I attack a tank from it's back/up/front? I would love an answer from an ED employee, all the rumors here, I just dont know what to believe now. :helpsmilie:

 

2.

And another question: How far does a laser actually go in real life? Is there a difference in RANGE between an IR laser and the "normal" one on the A-10?

 

Can the IR laser be used to get the "proper distance" to the target like the normal laser can be used?

 

What is the maximum distance for a laser & TGP pod combination to get a range on a target? The 8miles ingame seem a bit short.

 

 

Thanks in advance!

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Tanks have a health bar but the damage taken depends on where the tank is hit ie. tank gets more damage from rear hit compared to if the same weapon was fired from the same distance and would have hit the front. I think there's some more to damage calculations as I haven't yet seen a tank being taken out by .50 cal machineguns. Don't know if it would be possible though.

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2.

And another question: How far does a laser actually go in real life? Is there a difference in RANGE between an IR laser and the "normal" one on the A-10?

 

Can the IR laser be used to get the "proper distance" to the target like the normal laser can be used?

 

What is the maximum distance for a laser & TGP pod combination to get a range on a target? The 8miles ingame seem a bit short.

 

 

IR pointer which is the right term, is not suitable to get distances. Only the laser can do that. IR pointer is only good for marking targets.

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

Still open questions:

 

If it's just a health bar does it even matter whether I attack a tank from it's back/up/front? I would love an answer from an ED employee, all the rumors here, I just dont know what to believe now. helpsmilie.gif

 

2.

And another question: How far does a laser actually go in real life? Is there a difference in RANGE between an IR laser and the "normal" one on the A-10?

 

What is the maximum distance for a laser & TGP pod combination to get a range on a target? The 8miles ingame seem a bit short.

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By the way, isn't the "normal" laser Infrared also ? It is certainly not in the visible range, and I doubt it is a MASER.

 

My guess would be (but it really is just that, a guess): the IR pointer might have less range because it diffuses in the air (that is why you can see it), si it should lose more energy and attenuate more quickly than the other one.

 

There might be more to it, though. I'd actually be curious to know more about exactly the types of lasers used and their characteristics (academic background in laser physics talking here)

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If it's just a health bar does it even matter whether I attack a tank from it's back/up/front? I would love an answer from an ED employee, all the rumors here, I just dont know what to believe now

Oh, come off it.

 

YES.

 

Go try it yourself. Most ED employees are no more qualified to know than we are, unless they personally coded it.

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By the way, isn't the "normal" laser Infrared also ? It is certainly not in the visible range, and I doubt it is a MASER.

 

No, the laser is not in the IR spectrum. IR is for marking only.:)

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes

turned skyward for there you have been, and there you will always long to return"

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

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Thanks for the IR laser stuff guys, makes sense that it loses energy faster since it's visible, even if only with NV. Now I wonder about maximum range for TGP+laser range finding. :-/

 

 

Oh, come off it.

 

YES.

 

Go try it yourself. Most ED employees are no more qualified to know than we are, unless they personally coded it.

 

 

Dude I want to hear that from a guy who actually sees the code and can confirm that. I know that in real life rear and top armor are weakest. I am testing it right now and I am having a hard time really deciding whether it's the front, back, up armor that I am hitting... Since you know, even from 0.5 miles the GAU8 sprays a bit...

 

I just want to EXACTLY know how it works in game. So if you're not the one who coded it or has asked the coder that question recently, come off it man.


Edited by Megagoth1702

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Maybe it isn't located anywhere where you can find it.

 

There are no rumors about this, use the search function: Tanks are easier to kill from the rear, and you're not going to be told how exactly it works other than, yes, it's a healthbar.

 

The laser is an IR laser, and the IR pointer is ... a near IR pointer. Different toys, they fulfill different functions. I have no idea what you mean by 'different range' ... they're both beams of light?

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An IR pointer will heavily diffuse way faster than a laser. Therefore, an IR pointer will become 'pointless' as a point source of light faster.

 

As for lasers, they too dissipate and spread. But they have a far more effective range. They track the distance the moon is closing in on Earth by bouncing laser energy off it. But, as I stated, it too will diffuse over very long distances.

 

IR pointer: great for tactical use.

laser: much more accurate over longer distances

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I think the better question to ask is where is the figure or algorithm located in the game files... There are some folks out there who know this stuff as much as the programmers do.

Yep, I was hoping for something like that... Even in BF3 we have proper bullet damage stats. There is max damage at X range and MIN damage at Y range, inbetween the damage is being interpolated. So I have a pretty good idea of how the system works.

 

Just place an invincible T-72 behind an Abrams and count the shells it takes to kill it. Then repeat with frontal shots.

Thank's man, that's a good tip! I will try that.

 

EDIT: Damn man, that test is useless. Abrams front and rear armor are shitty, even the T55 cracks the abrams open with 1 AP hit... :-/ Maybe I am putting them too close to eachother? What's a typical tank engagement range? 1km? 2?

 

I have no idea what you mean by 'different range' ... they're both beams of light?

 

In that case - the IR and laser range are faulty. IR laser stops working after like 7miles, so if someone is further away than ca. 8nm you see the beam suddenly stop in the middle of the air.

 

If laser range finders can measure distances between moon and earth why are we limited to 8nm distance before the TGP can get proper distance to the target by using his laser?


Edited by Megagoth1702

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If laser range finders can measure distances between moon and earth why are we limited to 8nm distance before the TGP can get proper distance to the target by using his laser?

 

1. The lasers used for that experiment are unpractically big for employment in an airplane (except that monster 747 with the laser on the front).

 

2. There are reflectors on the moon.

 

3. When you measure the distance to the moon, you aim the laser at almost a right angle to earths surface, so the distance travelled through dense atmosphere is very short, ergo attenuation of the beam is minimized. This is not always the case when you range terrestrial objects.

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I have tried killing an Abrams with Ka-50 30mm and I was able to kill it with about 70 rounds when shooting it's rear from about 20m distance. I ran out of ammo when shooting the front armor.

 

edit: I used AP for this test. I wasn't able to kill the tank from any direction with HE. This test was done with some earlier version about year ago.

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Thanks GGTharos for the confirmation that the laser is IR. I suspected that the pointer is in a different IR frequency range (namely, near-IR), that makes sense (since NV goggles are near-IR ; also explains you can't see the targeting laser with the NVG).

 

But back to topic, the thing is, while it is highly probable the pointer has less range (ie. intensity or 'usefullness' fades more rapidly) because (as stated) of the higher diffusion and (probably) higher divergence (the cone spreads quicker), the matter is not actually very relevant, since they serve a very different purpose, and they are quite different animals, one would say.

 

I have to say, though, that if in-game the pointer just disappears suddenly at a certain range, that doesn't seem like a realistic behaviour. It would more probably fade away, but maybe that would be too hard on the framerate or something, for too small an achievement.

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So - is the armor of tanks being simulated? Or do they just have a healthbar?

 

If it's just a health bar does it even matter whether I attack a tank from it's back/up/front? I would love an answer from an ED employee, all the rumors here, I just dont know what to believe now. :helpsmilie:

 

I keep an eye out for details about this topic from ED employees. Here are the related (albeit sporadic) comments that I've seen. Keep in mind the date of these posts.

 

2007 - "given the new dynamic projectile modeling in DCS, vehicle aspect definitely counts when using the cannon. Generally, armored vehicles are much harder to kill from the front, because the sloped armor causes much more ricochet. Range is also critical."

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=418286&postcount=10

 

2008 - [regarding armor simulation] "For guns its done.

For missiles will arrive in patch."

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=596912&postcount=46

 

2009 - "I do believe Black Shark has the most detailed vehicle damage modeling of any flight sim to date and may only be second to SB Pro PE. Correct me if I'm wrong. Having said that, I'm sure it will be expanded in Warthog and beyond. "

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=679183&postcount=6

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

LP

 

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