Vekkinho Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 MiG-21-93 Oooh, it's a fake photo...that can't be R-77, no way... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
RvETito Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 Nope, no fake. Why would you say that? "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Vekkinho Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Nope, no fake. Why would you say that? I'm being sarcastic, few weeks ago I saw a statement that there is no photo/video evidence of R-77 launch, on top of that there's serious lack of photos of East block aircraft in flight armed with "live R-77". Only evidence of R-77 existence are black-striped inert versions of it so I'm trying to get this guys into making futher comments... So I'll assume that this must be unguided rocket... :music_whistling: Anyone?! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 that's an Indian AF Mig-21 Bison with an RVV-AE. The discussion you saw probably has nothing with this, as india is not an "eastern block country", it never was. The RVV-AE users are well known and it was not the subject of the discussion for certain. .
Vekkinho Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Who said anything 'bout India? Last time I heard about MiG-21-93 it was a Russian product. Last time I heard about RVV-AE it was a Russian product for export that doesn't differ from R-77. Last time I heard of Russia it was Eastern block country. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Alfa Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 I think you misunderstood what the discussion was about Vekkinho. You can find videos showing the RVV-AE being launched/destroying targets, so everyone knows that it exists and that it is in operational service e.g. with the Indian airforce. The discussion was about whether the Russian airforce has adopted it/has stockpiles of it. Edit: sniped by Pilotasso. JJ
Alfa Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Who said anything 'bout India? Last time I heard about MiG-21-93 it was a Russian product. The discussion you were refering to was about the R-77 in service with the Russian airforce. The MiG-21-93 is in service with the Indian airforce, but not with the RuAF. Last time I heard about RVV-AE it was a Russian product for export that doesn't differ from R-77. Not in design, but internal components likely do. Last time I heard of Russia it was Eastern block country. Well "eastern block" :D JJ
Vekkinho Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 MiG-31 crash: http://www.janes.com/article/31599/russian-mig-31-crashes-in-far-eastern-region [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
NOLA Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 I don't know if it is in service or not, But if F-15s would fly over Russian airspace whit aim-120 you can be sure that Mig-29/ Su-27 and Mig-21 would use R-77. As to that MiG-31 crash: It is repair plant that are being lazy/corrupt/moronic again. Apparently two Su-27's have crashed due to their "repairs". This makes it third aircraft they have killed off.
LARGE Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 As to that MiG-31 crash: It is repair plant that are being lazy/corrupt/moronic again. Apparently two Su-27's have crashed due to their "repairs". This makes it third aircraft they have killed off. Yes that is correct
GGTharos Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Not east block. Russian. Thanks for trying to make it into something it's not though, that was really successful. I'm being sarcastic, few weeks ago I saw a statement that there is no photo/video evidence of R-77 launch, on top of that there's serious lack of photos of East block aircraft in flight armed with "live R-77". Only evidence of R-77 existence are black-striped inert versions of it so I'm trying to get this guys into making futher comments... So I'll assume that this must be unguided rocket... :music_whistling: Anyone?! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 They're already wired to use R-77's, in theory adaptation is no issue. Do they have R-77's though? This has been the big question, and other than saying 'well they must have secret stocks', no one has offered any useful information. I could as well say that the secret AMRAAM-X's will come out then with inter-continental range and five spectrum seeker that will crush anything that flies ;) I don't know if it is in service or not, But if F-15s would fly over Russian airspace whit aim-120 you can be sure that Mig-29/ Su-27 and Mig-21 would use R-77. In service doesn't men that Russians can't adapt the missile in one week time. Su-30 and the rest of updated Su-27s and Mig-29s are all updated to load r-77s. And by the time aim-120c was around you would face updated Su-27s and Mig-29. It's sad that ED dint make the Su-27sm so you could feel how it is to fight Russian aircraft from 1998 and not 1985. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Vekkinho Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) You're all missing a point here with this R-77 debate...this is a photo/video thread we're derailing but let's answer few simple questions... First of all who made the MiG-21-93 upgrade? Who made R-77? Who sold MiG-21-93 capable of launching R-77 (or whatever it's called in India today)? Don't you think that whoever made it also tried it during trials before they sold it to India? Why don't they use it more often? LAck of funds. They don't even use 30 Y. O. missiles.. Edited December 25, 2013 by Vekkinho [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Vek, yes we should move this discussion elsewhere. But I would like to clarify a misconception your making. We are not calling Russians incapable. Its that despite technically capable ,circumstances following the breakup of USSR hindered Russia from buying it. First the seeker manufacturer was located in Ukraine, secondly the export version RVV-AE was not fielded because it was necessary to buy commercially available components outside russia to build it (deemed undesirable for national self sufficiency), thirdly the RuaF was starved of money until recent years to upgrade aircraft or buy missiles, fourthly, all 9-13 models of mig29 were scattered among different countries (out of 30 total manufactured), and lastly because its quite old (superseded by AMRAAM variants for a while now) and the Russians are developing an upgraded variant right now. Edited December 25, 2013 by Pilotasso .
Alfa Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 ... First the seeker manufacturer was located in Ukraine Not quite right Pilotasso - the designer of the missile(Vympel) is Russian, but during Soviet times had its production plant in in Ukraine. The seekerhead(9B-1348 ) is by a Russian company called AGAT. JJ
Vekkinho Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 ^^ R-77 was a Vympel design but produced in Ukraine... However, many of the Russian equipment of today is still produced in Ukraine, like helicopter engines, Antonov parts etc...I don't think Russia's gonna throw it all away just because it was made by someone else. Edit: Alfa already mentioned it... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
NOLA Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 We already had a lengthy discussion about R-77's use in RuAF. The pro-use-of-R-77-in-RuAF had ZERO evidence whatsoever about it actually being in service. All talk, zero proof. So until such proof surfaces; this is a finished discussion.
Alfa Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 They're already wired to use R-77's, in theory adaptation is no issue. Do they have R-77's though? This has been the big question Indeed. Besides, the existance of stock piles is one thing, training pilots to use them is another - i.e. the scaresity of photos showing aircraft carrying them may not be indicative of the former, but would seem to be in regads to the latter. JJ
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 We already had a lengthy discussion about R-77's use in RuAF. The pro-use-of-R-77-in-RuAF had ZERO evidence whatsoever about it actually being in service. All talk, zero proof. So until such proof surfaces; this is a finished discussion.What evidence does it take to convince you? By your logic, I can say that F-15 can not carry 8 AMRAAM's. Even worst, F-15 can not engage four, let alone 8 targets simultaneously. Show me the video to prove otherwise. If you find a video, then Ill have more questions for you ... Thus, what do you want for an evidence that Russia had or has R-77 in its service? Let me remind you, there is no need what so ever for Russians to carry live R-77 around. Every landing with a live missile reduces the life of that missile, did you know that? Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
NOLA Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 What evidence does it take to convince you? Extremely simple evidence; At the very least a picture of a RuAF* plane with R-77. Surely that can't be hard, can it now? :) *RuAF =/= company owned test plane. Many can't grasp that.
Esac_mirmidon Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Please return this topic to pics and videos. Please ¡¡¡ You have plenty space in other threads to talk about that. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Extremely simple evidence; At the very least a picture of a RuAF* plane with R-77. Show me the picture of F-15 carrying 8 AMRAAM's. Surely that can't be hard, can it now? :)Surely that can't be hard, can it now? BTW, why would F-15 ever carry 8 AMRAAM's? And why would the Russian Air Force ever carry live R-77's around? Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
NOLA Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 Show me the picture of F-15 carrying 8 AMRAAM's. That is completely irrelevant for several reasons: 1: We are talking about R-77. 2: I didnt ask for a full load scenario picture, which is of course by far rare, for any X missile. BTW, why would F-15 ever carry 8 AMRAAM's? And why would the Russian Air Force ever carry live R-77's around? Carrying one missile =/= carrying full load of them. Another fallacy. Why wouldn't they carry R-77 around is much better question. They DO afterall carry around R-33, R-60, R-27, R-73. So how come is R-77 magically not carried around? I could display evidence for every missile above, and yet you cant display evidence for R-77. Anyway, to go back to the thread. Some excellent MiG-31 refueling shots here: http://www.avsim.su/forum/topic/57345-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B8/page-228#entry2545927 And here: http://forums.airforce.ru/foto-video/2911-mig-31-a-48/#post104744
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