Agg Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 The F-15's F-100 engines make a quite distinctive "whoop" noise caused by bleed air escaping from pressure relief valves in the pneumatic nozzle operating system, when the exhaust nozzle petals are opened up or closed down. Would it be possible to add this to the FC3 Eagle? It's a small detail I know, but the details are what make DCS so great.
badger66 Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 You sure its not an actuator sound ? Cant understand how you would hear a pneumatic sound over the engine , but for that matter , I cant understand how any sound could be heard over that engine !!!
almonds Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 that sound is the hydraulic actuators for the turkey feathers on the f-100 "The art of simulation design is about understanding limited fidelity... ...compromises must be made. Designers have to consider cost vs. fidelity and processor time vs. fidelity. Additional trade-offs must be made between graphics, AI, flight models, number of units and more... ...never ask the pilot what he wants to learn because he too will end up building an airplane. Instead, ask the pilot what he needs to learn." -Gilman "Chopstick" Louie
Agg Posted November 21, 2012 Author Posted November 21, 2012 Im no mechanic, Im just retelling what I've been told earlier, but if it's not correct, I will make a note of it ;)
Joe Kurr Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 It's not only the F-15 which makes that noise. The F-16's nozzle also 'whoops' when opening or closing, and it can easily be heard from 100 meters away. The Tornado also makes this sound when the thrust reverse buckets are opened and closed. Haven't heard it on any Russian birds though... Dutch Flanker Display Team | LLTM 2010 Tiger Spirit Award
almonds Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 The F-16's nozzle also 'whoops' when opening or closing, and it can easily be heard from 100 meters away. if they are using P&Ws, not the GEs "The art of simulation design is about understanding limited fidelity... ...compromises must be made. Designers have to consider cost vs. fidelity and processor time vs. fidelity. Additional trade-offs must be made between graphics, AI, flight models, number of units and more... ...never ask the pilot what he wants to learn because he too will end up building an airplane. Instead, ask the pilot what he needs to learn." -Gilman "Chopstick" Louie
SUBS17 Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I'll let zzzspace know about this he added some really good sound FX to DCS World so I bet he could add that.:thumbup: [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
mvsgas Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 The sound is from 13th stage compressor air going through the convergent exhaust nozzle controller (CENC) on P&W engines as the nozzle moves. The CENC in turn rotates 5 actuator (one directly connected to CENC, rest connected to each other) mechanically using flex shafts. So no hydraulics on P&W engines. Making it sound like an air tool. The sound is not that notifiable in the pit in RL, not the way I remember. At least not in F-16. Not sure how much we would gain as players by adding it to DCS. To each its own I guess To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
mvsgas Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 if they are using P&Ws, not the GEs Yes P&W uses compress air for the nozzle movement. GE uses engine oil, so no whistle. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Meatwod Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 The cenc has a butterf valve that opensto allow bleed air to turn the superch arger style rotors that turn the actuators. The bleed air exits out From a tube that resonates very loudly. You can hear it when the aircraft flies overhead on final approach since the nozzle is moving quite a bit. Would be an awesome sound mod.
badger66 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 The cenc has a butterf valve that opensto allow bleed air to turn the superch arger style rotors that turn the actuators Cenc ..... Whats this ? butterf valve ..... A what ? Turns the actuators ..... Actuators dont turn as they are fixed at both ends , otherwise they wouldnt work . Supercharger rotors ..... fan blades ? What language is this ..... beer talk I suppose :megalol:
Megagoth1702 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Hehehehe. :-D It is true though that it's hard to understand what Meatwood means there. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming!
mvsgas Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Cenc ..... Whats this ? Convergent Exhaust Nozzle Control, a small, air driven, electronically control pneumatic gearbox rotating flex shafts to rotate actuators Internally, allowing them to extend/retract linearly. butterf valve ..... A what ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_valve Turns the actuators ..... Actuators dont turn as they are fixed at both ends , otherwise they wouldnt work . Well if you know how the P&W actuators work ( which I do not know nether) you would know that they extend and retract linearly but are driven by rotating gear within. So I understand what he ment Supercharger rotors ..... fan blades ? The CENC uses a turbine to turn gear within What language is this ..... beer talk I suppose :megalol: I understood his meaning Makes perfect since to me. :smartass::D To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
SUBS17 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 The sound is not that notifiable in the pit in RL, not the way I remember. At least not in F-16. Not sure how much we would gain as players by adding it to DCS. To each its own I guess Its just another aspect that makes the aircraft that much more detailed especially for external view or if you heard it while rampstarting with the canopy up.:thumbup: Zzzspace added some awesome sounds to the A-10C small detailed parts to the overall sound of the A-10C like the engine start noise so it would be cool if this were added to the F-15C and later or at the same time to the F-15E.:pilotfly: [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
Blaze Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) Adding sounds to aircraft has to be done at a DLL level, unlike modifying exiting ones. Sorry. Regarding the whine, you're correct. The F100 exhaust nozzle is driven by 13th stage bleed air. The "whine" is produced by the air leaving the Convergent Exhaust Nozzle Control (CENC) exhaust tube. The system is very light weight and actuates the nozzle using flex-shafts. The CENC spins the shafts like an air wrench to open or close the nozzle. On a snap acceleration or deceleration, the CENC “whines” as the nozzle moves. Edited November 25, 2012 by Blaze i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. "
Meatwod Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Sorry, butterfly valve. I was trying to type from my cell phone. A supercharger has a herringbone rotor. Air passing through the rotor makes them turn. It's the herringbone rotors that have flex shafts attached to them that generate torque. The flex shafts are connected to a nozzle actuator transmission which converts the torque into an actuation through a ball screw assembly. Air entering the rotors has to exist somewhere, so it is vented out through an exhaust tube. The air is extremely hot, so the rotors cannot be lubricated with grease. The sound is a combination of resonation and mechanical gears accelerating to a very high RPM in a short time. The tube resonates because the exhaust tube has a convergent washer that restricts exhaust flow to limit the open and close rate to prevent the actuators from overshooting and damaging the nozzle assembly.
Meatwod Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-15879.html From the very informative folks at F-16.net
Demongornot Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 This sound is beautiful ! Thanks for explain everyone ! i have always wonder know where it come from We can clearly hear it in this short F100 engine test video : CPU : I7 6700k, MB : MSI Z170A GAMING M3, GC : EVGA GTX 1080ti SC2 GAMING iCX, RAM : DDR4 HyperX Fury 4 x 8 Go 2666 MHz CAS 15, STORAGE : Windows 10 on SSD, games on HDDs. Hardware used for DCS : Pro, Saitek pro flight rudder, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Oculus Rift. Own : A-10C, Black Shark (BS1 to BS2), P-51D, FC3, UH-1H, Combined Arms, Mi-8MTV2, AV-8B, M-2000C, F/A-18C, Hawk T.1A Want : F-14 Tomcat, Yak-52, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, F-5E, MiG-21Bis, F-86F, MAC, F-16C, F-15E.
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