Does this game heat your GPU up?

[AndroidVageta]

OK...I have a GTX 580 @ 900mhz. Have it water cooled using a Kuhler 620 with a single 120mm fan (pull - case is ITX, not a lot of room).

 

Normally when gaming, even hard core games like Far Cry 3, ARMA 2, etc max settings I MIGHT see 65C.

 

Sitting here playing A-10 for about an hour and noticed my GPU is 85C!!! 85 DEGREES CELSIUS!!! WTF?!?! Game is maxed (no AA) @ 2048x1536 and runs like a champ but DAMN is it heating up my GPU. Remember too, this is WATER COOLED, granted it isn't the best cooling out there but come on! I don't even see how a stock fan/heatsink could even handle this game!

 

Is something wrong with the game or is it just THAT demanding? Certainly doesn't seem so as I'm having zero issues running it.

 

Just worrying is all...:noexpression:

 

I never hit 85C with the stock cooler...let alone my Kulher 620!

[EtherealN]

Assuming your graphics card and it's cooling solution is in good repair, it is quite literally impossible for a game to overheat it. (Exception: if you overclock the components and do a bad burn-test that did not fully stress the components, and THEN run into something that does stress them... then heat, fire as well and unintended escape of magic smoke may result.)

 

On my GTX560Ti, I've seen maybe 65 degrees Celcius or so, tops, while running DCS. That's aircooled DirectCUII solution.

 

Anyway, the GTX580 specification gives Tmax at 97 degrees Celcius, so 85 degrees C is acceptable. However, if it is higher than you are used to see, I would recommend that you check the cooling assembly to make sure everything is fine. Also, does your water cooling solution cool only the GPU, or does it have auxiliary thermal interfaces to the memory controller and memory chips?

Edited January 12, 2013 by EtherealN

[AndroidVageta]

After some testing and toying with other games the MAX my GPU gets in any other game is Far Cry 3...and even then it only touches 70C...average was about 68C.

 

So it's definitely something with A-10. I mean, hardware is fine. Cooler is fine. Fans are fine.

 

CPU shows no signs of abnormal temperatures. Something about the game or maybe the drivers is causing my GPU to spike up like this. Running the most current version too.

 

My worry is with other peoples GPU's. If mine, being water cooled, is reaching the mid 80's there's no way someone who might be having the same problems can handle these temps on air.

 

I'm putting this as an issue with A-10 wholly. Something isn't right here. No way should any game push my GPU to these temperatures. No way.

[The LT]

There is nothing wrong with a GTX 580 @ 85C, it's still way below it's TMax, which is over 100C.

[AndroidVageta]

There is nothing wrong with a GTX 580 @ 85C, it's still way below it's TMax, which is over 100C.

 

I understand that...my question is WHY is A-10 pushing my GPU to 85C in the first place? It is no more a challenge to run than any other game I play regularly that never push my GPU to these temps. You have to understand that it's water cooled. 85C should be impossible unless my GPU is doing some SERIOUS work (like folding 24/7...which even then that's a stretch), which it isn't or the mounting/hardware is faulty somewhere which it isn't.

 

EtherealN said his 560 hits 65C max...and his is AIR COOLED. My 580 is under water and is hitting 85C. Granted these are different cards and different TDP's and what not but the point still remains.

 

Yes, 85C is safe. I know that. However, again, it shouldn't be hitting 85C. Considering the cooling that shouldn't even be possible all things considered.

 

I'm thinking it's either a driver bug or a problem with the game itself.

 

Also been running MSI Kombuster since my last post and the temperatures it shows as max...ABSOLUTE MAX AT 100% USAGE...is 72C. That's the hottest I've seen it ever. Well, that is if I take A-10 out of the picture that ran 13C higher than GPU stress test.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

[Quirkitized]

My two 580s hit 70-85c in DCS, but BF3 goes as high, just seems normal to me when gpu is getting used 95-99% useage. Also, kombuster never reached high temps for me either, BF3 on ultra @ 2560x1440 reached 90c+ while the app was only hitting 75c~

[AndroidVageta]

Are you 580's water cooled? What are your ambient temps? Mine hovers around 35C 0% usage and reaches ~70C max in any game...even BF3 at 2048x1536 with 4xAA max settings I reach around 65C normally when gaming...not even 70C. Far Cry gets to 70C and that's the highest I've seen any game ever get.

[Quirkitized]

air cooled, room temp varies around 68-75c.

 

edit: my mistake, edited out the other comment as I see you did o/c to 900mhz , I overlooked that. Did you increase your voltage to achieve that? if so, try lowering it a bit. Or try running your card at default 780 clock and see what your temps are.

 

I'm thinking it's your case. I have a full tower case with lots of fans, comparable to the HAF X in temps

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147053

Edited January 12, 2013 by Quirkitized

[AndroidVageta]

Nah, overclock and voltage is fine. Don't mean to be rude or anything...but I think you are missing the point here.

 

Far Cry 3 pushes my GPU more (temp wise) than ANY game I've ever played. More than Metro, more than BF3, more than Crysis, etc. Far Cry 3 maxes my GPU at 70-71C.

 

FurMark, OCCT, and Kombuster max my GPU at 72C average with a few spikes to 73C. This is at, of course, 100% load.

 

So all the evidence points to the fact the Kuhler 620 that I have cooling my GPU is WAYYY efficient enough in every instance in that it has NO problem cooling my GPU what so ever. It is MORE than enough. We can also conclude that under any given circumstance ~70C is the max temp my GPU should put out as proven by games and stress testing. This is true of any PC component. If I am stress testing my CPU, say, with Linpack and after 24 hours of complete 100% usage my CPU doesn't go over 65C for instance, then there is NOTHING that should be able to push my CPU to 75C. Linpack has pushed the CPU to its ultimate temperature.

 

So, that is my problem with A-10. If max temperature with EVERYTHING else out there is roughly 70C then there is NO reason why A-10 should be pushing my GPU anywhere near 85C. It just shouldn't be possible. That is unless ALL my GPU stress testers and all my games somehow AREN'T pushing my GPU to 100%...which simply isn't the case.

 

So A-10 is the only program that pushes my GPU past its otherwise normal max temps. So something is wrong with A-10 and/or the drivers I'm using.

 

EDIT: Just wanted to add that for the time being I am playing EMPTY maps...no A.I. enemies or allies. Just trying to get a feel for the Warthog and it's systems. So I don't really see anything in particular PUSHING my GPU let alone my entire system anywhere near the max.

Edited January 12, 2013 by AndroidVageta

[Madone]

nVidia graphic cards are well known to consume more power and produce more heat than AMD, I saw a nVidia GTX 460 going around 110°C once OCed... Nothing weird for you if it doesn't go further than 85°C...

Edited January 12, 2013 by Madone

[Quirkitized]

I understand your point. My point was that benchmark software, in my experience for gpu stressing doesn't always work out to be a good stress even though cpu stress tests do well.

 

For instance, BF3 is typically around the 70-75c mark, however if I load up the metro map, and select the US side, and leave it at the menu and not spawn (where you see the subway and steam coming out) both cards stay at 99% gpu usage at that very spot and my cards go 85-90c. I can't break 80c in kombuster.

 

So while you may get 99% gpu usage in game A with a gpu temp of 70, and 99% gpu usage in game B with 85c temp what I'm just trying to say is this has always been a normal occurrence for me with various cards.

 

I still think your temps in general, with watercooling, is high. Most forums I visit, people with water cooling setups see their 580s around the 50s and 60's c mark. The number you are saying, even for other games, arent much lower than what stock air coolers do. Even a google search of other users using the 620 modified for use on a gtx 580 they are reporting max temps much lower than yours. this is why I think there is an underlying issue with your setup in general and not DCS, be it airflow, your WC kit or what not.

 

if you do find something that is the cause I am sure people would like to hear it in case others have the same issue.

[Hamblue]

It's definitely worth removing the water block, cleaning it and re-installing with some fresh artic silver.

After that try the latest drivers (310.90) You can find them at Guru3d.com

[AndroidVageta]

For instance, BF3 is typically around the 70-75c mark, however if I load up the metro map, and select the US side, and leave it at the menu and not spawn (where you see the subway and steam coming out) both cards stay at 99% gpu usage at that very spot and my cards go 85-90c. I can't break 80c in kombuster.

 

OK...I ran the exact same thing in BF3. 2048x1536, 4xAA, MAX everything and my GPU reached 73C. No more no less. So, I can conclude with everything I've seen that mid-70's is the thermal limit of my GPU given any circumstances. Except A-10.

 

Plus, as I've mentioned before, if I'm hitting 85C in A-10 there's no way it isn't burning up other peoples GPU. I mean, I'm water cooled. If I reach 85C under water I wouldn't even WANT to know what I'd get on air! 95C+?! Hmmm...this is most definitely an odd ordeal.

 

...I still think your temps in general, with watercooling, is high. Most forums I visit, people with water cooling setups see their 580s around the 50s and 60's c mark. The number you are saying, even for other games, arent much lower than what stock air coolers do. Even a google search of other users using the 620 modified for use on a gtx 580 they are reporting max temps much lower than yours. this is why I think there is an underlying issue with your setup in general and not DCS, be it airflow, your WC kit or what not.

 

...

 

My water cooling isn't quite as efficient as others because I'm working with ITX and a single fan for each radiator.

 

 

So...you can see what cooling wouldn't QUITE be as efficient as a full sized rig with multiple fans and what not.

Edited January 12, 2013 by AndroidVageta

[EtherealN]

Your waterblock is made for CPU's, not GPU's. As I asked previously:

 

Also, does your water cooling solution cool only the GPU, or does it have auxiliary thermal interfaces to the memory controller and memory chips?

 

As you can see yourself, your solution cools only the GPU itself. vRAM and memory controller are left out and will thus run hotter (in any application that really needs them, like DCS) than on air because the bog-standard air-cooling solution will cool them, while your juryrigged CPU cooler will not.

 

Whether this really is what's happening, no clue, a lot depends on exactly where the sensors are on that thing.

 

Basically, all I can say is that on my 560Ti, DCS does not run hotter than anything else. (Well, Starcraft 2 runs cooler, but that's because I run that at minimum graphics, and SC2 at minimum graphics is barely textures... :D )

Edited January 12, 2013 by EtherealN

[EtherealN]

Plus, as I've mentioned before, if I'm hitting 85C in A-10 there's no way it isn't burning up other peoples GPU. I mean, I'm water cooled. If I reach 85C under water I wouldn't even WANT to know what I'd get on air! 95C+?! Hmmm...this is most definitely an odd ordeal.

 

Is way. :)

 

 

As mentioned already, unless poorly overclocked, it is literally impossible for a computer game to "burn up" a GPU. This for the same reason why it is impossible for Prime95 to melt your CPU (unless said CPU is poorly overclocked); the chip will reach Tmax and throttle itself down.

[AndroidVageta]

The GPU components are being cooled. The components on the GPU have their own heatsinks and I have a 120mm fan blowing right on them (you can see it inside the case on the 3rd picture).

 

Believe me, I'm a hardcore PC geek...I know how to cool stuff off...that's why I went with these water coolers to begin with. And yes I know they're made for CPU's but I am FAR from the first person to do this (the bracket holding the water block on the GPU is custom made by a member on another forum specifically for this task - see pic #1) and they have worked beautifully for everyone else that has done it...myself included...excluding A-10 of course.

[EtherealN]

I see a fan aimed at them, but no sink. What I'm reacting to is on the first picture where we see the memory chips around the CPU, uncooled. On the third picture it is hard to see more than that there is a fan mounted to one side of the water block.

 

What is your OC settings and have you tried without them? If you haven't tried at stock, I would recommend that you do so: different games will use different resources, and benchmark tools and stresstesters are not quite as good as often advertised. It is entirely possible that said tools and the other games simply don't use the same things. Reading a given amount of utilization on the GPU does not really say what it is often thought it says: 100% utilization does not mean all components are running at max capacity. It simply means something on there is running at max capacity - that is, you've reached a bottleneck. For that reason, it is entirely possible that the other games bottleneck on something, leaving a lot of other things (be it memory controller or even an amount of CUDA cores) with nothing to do, potentially giving you a situation where you'll get a 100% report, think you've maxed it, and then in another game you'll get the same utilization report but a completely different temperature report.

 

I agree there is something weird going on, but if it was DCS that was the root cause, more people would see it - and people with air-cooled kit would find their cards throttling. They don't.

[emenance]

its a 10c diff than what you would consider normal. Everyone knows that this sim is hard on hardware. Your overthinking it and I wouldn't think about anymore if I were you and that was my set up.

[EtherealN]

AndroidVageta, one thing that just struck me: do you have any custom profiler applications that govern fan speeds etcetera on the graphics card? It is, in that case, possible that the application in question does not recognize DCS and for this reason ends up running the pump slowly on some sort of default profile. If I remember right, 85C is the default "high" setting for most nVidia cards, and since the pump is in these units governed by what is normally fan speed... this could potentially explain what you are seeing.

 

Myself I use one single profile for everything with nothing at all specified by game. (I don't use any overclocking either, on the graphics card, since I frankly don't need it for anything.)

[AndroidVageta]

AndroidVageta, one thing that just struck me: do you have any custom profiler applications that govern fan speeds etcetera on the graphics card? It is, in that case, possible that the application in question does not recognize DCS and for this reason ends up running the pump slowly on some sort of default profile. If I remember right, 85C is the default "high" setting for most nVidia cards, and since the pump is in these units governed by what is normally fan speed... this could potentially explain what you are seeing.

 

Myself I use one single profile for everything with nothing at all specified by game. (I don't use any overclocking either, on the graphics card, since I frankly don't need it for anything.)

 

Ah good catch! Unfortunately I do not. I have the fans and pump being powered directly by molex connectors. I learned long ago to not rely on software profiles or any fan controller unless its an actual hardware one.

 

So for the time being my fans and pumps are running full speed no matter the program or game running (save for the 120mm next to the GPU, that has a speed switch on it and is set to medium).

 

Either way, good looking out! If any of my issues were of normal or even abnormal causes you definitely would have uncovered them by now. :thumbup:

 

As to the actual unsolved problem I've just given up. Like I've said multiple times everything is properly cooled, everything is working fine, no other games or programs reach anywhere near 85C (oh, including FSX AND Blackshark by the way both on max settings...)...so only thing I can conclude which I don't feel like messing with is a driver issue. I remember playing A-10 a while back before I went water cooled with the same GPU and I think it reached like 80C on air cooling with the fan manually set to like 60-70%...something that doesn't cool my GPU anywhere near what the water cooler does. Well, sure the water cooler is up there in comparison, but its a small ass case and even though cooling may not be EXCELLENT...it sure as hell is MUCH quieter!

 

Because of that alone you can see where my worries have substance. However, yet again, 85C is well under the GTX 580 max thresh hold so I don't really have to worry about it, technically speaking of course.

 

My next move is to buy new fans though! I can tell you that much!

Edited January 12, 2013 by AndroidVageta

[Maachine]

i'm no expert at all, but i read through your thread just out of curiosity, one thing i've noticed is that you are comparing apples to oranges. my thinking is that A-10C is just pushing your system harder than anything else you are playing.

[AndroidVageta]

i'm no expert at all, but i read through your thread just out of curiosity, one thing i've noticed is that you are comparing apples to oranges. my thinking is that A-10C is just pushing your system harder than anything else you are playing.

 

I HIGHLY doubt that...have you ever seen GTA 4 maxed out with mods? Talking car models better than any racing game, more people and vehicles on screen than any game ever, HD textures, full ENB enabled (ambient occlusion, HDR, indirect lighting, etc), etc. There is NO game more taxing than my modded GTA 4. I simply don't think it's possible.

 

Yes A-10 is a beast game, but I have ZERO issues running it. I'm running a 2k resolution with all settings maxed out and the game runs perfectly with no slowdown or anything. So unless I'm running some uber game and my PC magically can run this super duper high end game fine than I don't think A-10 is as resource heavy as YOU believe it is.

 

Here's what my GTA 4 looks like...does A-10 look anywhere near as graphically intense as this:

 

 

Didn't think so. Plus, if A-10 was pushing the actual GPU that hard to produce temps that high then there is no way I would be pushing 45+ FPS at max settings. I play plenty of games that not only look better but run slower than A-10 that don't bring my temps ANYWHERE near as high.

[EtherealN]

While I agree with your general conclusion, don't make the mistake of judging how hard something presses your system purely on "looks". Remember that DCS renders a much larger area than a game like GTA4. At any one time you'll have many many times as large an area being rendered than the complete GTA4 map. Guessing relative polygon counts and textures involved in a frame is nigh on impossible though.

[AndroidVageta]

While I agree with your general conclusion, don't make the mistake of judging how hard something presses your system purely on "looks". Remember that DCS renders a much larger area than a game like GTA4. At any one time you'll have many many times as large an area being rendered than the complete GTA4 map. Guessing relative polygon counts and textures involved in a frame is nigh on impossible though.

 

True, but that's where I see the issue with this reasoning.

 

I know DCS is rendering a massive map...but if the game was that taxing then shouldn't that naturally reflect in the performance?

 

GTA 4 although not as big definitely runs a lot worse than A-10 does. Maxed out at 2048x1536 I'm seeing about 45 frames a second on average with A-10...GTA 4 is running around 30 frames and this is understandably so.

 

So if A-10 is running @ 45fps and its completely smooth with no issues then that tells me that A-10 isn't really THAT taxing all things considered.

 

Here is what I posted in another thread on [H]ard|Forum (ignore the snippy tone...people in the thread are being quite know it all-ish :p):

 

OK...again...show me a example of another game that will show the same symptoms.

 

Here is a list of games that I've played recently with zero issues:

 

DCS World

Hitman Absolution

Planetside 2

Far Cry 3

Crysis

Metro 2033

Batman: Arkham City

GTA 4 (fully loaded with mods)

ARMA 2

Battlefield 3

Flight Simulator X

Hawken

Borderlands 2

 

Among others. Each game maxed out graphically. I think in the end GTA 4 and BF3 get the hottest at around ~75C MAX. No more than that. Never have I seen 76C or higher with any game EVER.

[SkateZilla]

OK...I have a GTX 580 @ 900mhz. Have it water cooled using a Kuhler 620 with a single 120mm fan (pull - case is ITX, not a lot of room).

 

Normally when gaming, even hard core games like Far Cry 3, ARMA 2, etc max settings I MIGHT see 65C.

 

Sitting here playing A-10 for about an hour and noticed my GPU is 85C!!! 85 DEGREES CELSIUS!!! WTF?!?! Game is maxed (no AA) @ 2048x1536 and runs like a champ but DAMN is it heating up my GPU. Remember too, this is WATER COOLED, granted it isn't the best cooling out there but come on! I don't even see how a stock fan/heatsink could even handle this game!

 

Is something wrong with the game or is it just THAT demanding? Certainly doesn't seem so as I'm having zero issues running it.

 

Just worrying is all...:noexpression:

 

I never hit 85C with the stock cooler...let alone my Kulher 620!

 

if you're seeing those Temps under load, then you have a T.I.M. Issue, PUMP Issue, or Mounting Issue.

 

My 7950 never gets above 45c on Air running stock 900Mhz Clock across 3 screens, Even in the Summer.,

 

Water Cooled under a H80 w/ a Customized SwifTech full cover heatsink and Overclocked to 1200Mhz GPU, 1600Mhz Memory, it still doesnt crack 40^C.