Question about Black Shark

[Kindred]

Don’t get me wrong, looking forward for any of Eagle Dynamics products. I'm already impressed with what they put on our plates.

 

Question is for incoming Black Shark; will it be strictly air to ground, or will it have limited air to air capabilities?

 

Edit: maybe the question was already asked, aint sure...

[GGTharos]

As much AA capability as a Vikhr can provide you with, I'm sure ...

 

AFAIK none of those choppers have ever been fitted to carry proper AA weapons.

[upyr1]

though the real question is if you open up on an AH-64 with guns is he going to fight back or just stand there like an idiot and get balsted?

[Kindred]

Ok, Pardon my ignorance (I'm a noob about missiles) but is the Vikhr strictly air to ground...

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/at-9.htm

 

basically, we would be fighting strictly AI. Was, looking for some multiplayer chopper wars.

[SuperKungFu]

you could always hit each other with the double blades lol. Or just use the gun on a 1v1 helo match.

[Kindred]

you could always hit each other with the double blades lol. Or just use the gun on a 1v1 helo match.

That would be cool. Will Ed put this bird at least available in different countries? To allow us to make some chopper wars?. Gunzo is better then nothing I guess, but would be cool to have at least some r-73 on them. Even thought they are not in service with these weapons in real life, I think, might be wrong, then again I’m far to be and expert on missiles. They did experiment with them I think. Making them available in this sim, would not be so much of a bad thing IHMO. It would in return give out some more playability vs human opponents.... And give us a small chance playing online vs fighter jets.

[Kindred]

If the KA-50 was fitted with R-73 in an experimental stage, then I have no quarrels to see them in a virtual real life. It would prove its efficiency of this weapon on this bird. Again to improve multiplayer sessions. R-73 is nothing compared to a Aim 120 or R77, but at least it gives us a fighting chance, even thought slim it might be…

 

I reckon its something to consider imho.

[GGTharos]

Not in service=not in sim.

 

The Vikhr will do fine against helos, so don't worry about it too much.

 

Plus, you're not -supposed- to have a chance against jets but, if you want some tips:

 

You can fly around and stay in the notch without any trouble - no need to hover. You'd be mostly immune to radar guided missiles most of the time, but don't count on it 100%.

You will probably have an IR jammer as well, but you won't have an RWR (the real thing doesn't). Your hull is cooler that a jet's, and the ground creates clutter for IR missiles too (IR clutter, of course).

 

If they try to strafe you, try to fly right under them ASAP ... totally ruins the shot since I doubt they want to lawndart ;)

[Kindred]

Ok if not in service then I'll go with it. Is the Ka50 really in service? Or is it still and experimental aircraft? How many are in service, what regiment I might add… I want to look it up. Not questioning your knowledge but I want to learn myself.

 

There so many things about this “sim” I don’t know about. So I ask questions about it. I reckon if there was a valid reason to put r-73 on these birds. Why not give the intention a fighting chance. Even if it was experimental. It was real, at the time it was brought to life. Again thinking about multiplayer.

[Kindred]

Just found this out:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/starstreak/

 

I reckon the Ka-50 has the ability even if secret to carry air to air. Why not. The apache has it officially known to the public.

 

Again, curious. Learning, not judging.

 

I just want good playability online with this bird.

[GGTharos]

It wasn't real. AFAIK the only time an R-73 was put on a Ka-50 was on a mock-up, if I recall the discussions I read correctly.

 

The Ka-50 has always been an experimental aircraft in some sense. They saw some limited service in Chechnya, IIRC.

 

It's being added because it was popularized in Russia by a movie similar to Airwolf - but that's no reason to start equipping it with weapons it doesn't use ;)

 

And, again ... if you want a fighting chance against a jet in MP, either get another fighter, or stay out their way in your helo. Helo v.helo is pretty equal.

[GGTharos]

Just found this out:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/starstreak/

 

I reckon the Ka-50 has the ability even if secret to carry air to air. Why not. The apache has it officially known to the public.

 

Again, curious. Learning, not judging.

 

I just want good playability online with this bird.

 

The Apache doesn't carry any AA weapons into combat - at least it hasn't lately.

 

Marine AH-1W's sometimes do, according to Fudd. So, again, just because one helo does, doesn't mean another one does.

[Kindred]

True, but the possibilities are there, and the technologies was built for it. Even though they where not put into real combat situations.

 

 

But I think as virtual pilots, we should mimic these. It Would be more intense. And basicly it will should not break the rules of RL, due that they where made in real life. True not in service, but it was created and put to real life testing.

 

 

Just my humble opinion :D

[Kindred]

As you can see, I'm fishing hard to prove a point to allow Dev's to give us some air to air defence with their upcomming Black Shark. Never the less. I will buy it due that I'm a fanatic with choopers.

I'm out. Getting late.

 

Cheers

[Sniper121]

Black Shark ... A Rotorhead's Dream about to come true!

 

First, a Salute to you all. I'm new to the forums as of today after finding out about LO:Black Shark on the Track IR website at naturalpoint.com. I just got my new Track IR 4 Pro today and saw a dream coming true for a helo sim on their site. For I'd been thinking it would be cool if they could get Jane's Combat Simulations' LONGBOW 2 to work with Track IR, even if it was just two axis movement. Then I saw the 1 minute Black Shark movie that Matt Wagner made with the pre-alpha version and was stunned when I saw the work of the ED Dev Team.

 

Like any other Rotorhead sim lover, I was thinking I can't wait for March 2006 to get here, but it will be worth it.

 

I agree with one of the wants for multiplayer action, hoping for something similar to the two seat multiplayer crew operation that LONGBOW 2 has in the sim, but if it's going to be single seat that will suit me just fine because the screenshots and Matt's movie of the Track IR 4 6DOF head tracking was amazing.

 

And oh yeah, I'm definitely hoping for the eventual add-on or expansion of the AH-64D LONGBOW in Lock On.

 

Cheers!

[Kindred]

GG in your own words:

The Ka-50 has always been an experimental aircraft in some sense.

[endquote]

Again. I have not quarrels to see r-73 air to air on this aircraft.:cool:

 

Tired, I'm out, have a nice evening. Was a fun discussion. I learn a lot tonight.

 

 

 

The Kindred

[GGTharos]

Heh ;)

 

Well, there is an extremely long discussion about it in the Russian forums, including at least one Hind pilot with knowledge of AA missile use on Russian helos (my understanding for the situation) and the conclusion, as I understood it, was ... no.

[upyr1]

Back when the MI-28 when I frist read about the MI-28 prototype I had specualted that the KA-50 was being designed as a scout with anti chopper ability and the MI-28 would be the main gunship but I can see I am wrong..speaking of the Mi-28 any one read about it in the past 10 years?

[504 Wolverine]

Well to add my bit on this.

 

IIRC the Russian army purchased 20+ Ka-50s and some of these saw limited combat in Chechnya. The Ka-50 is mainly for battlefield FAC but with those weapons I could see it doing CAS as well.

 

As for the R-73s, The KA-50 was fitted out with these for display purposes only, there has never been a live firing of the R-73 from the Ka-50 and AFAIK it does not have the aproppraite systems yet to fire the R-73s installed but as GG has said the Vkhir is A2A capable against IIRC targets below 800Km/h so this can be used for limited protection against any choppers or slow aircraft so whats the point of 2 R-73s taking up the space that 12 Vkhirs can utilise.

[Kindred]

http://www.deagel.com/pandora/ka-50-black-shark_pm00248001.aspx

 

Just found this link;

 

The Ka-50 armament includes a 30mm 2A42 gun with 800 high explosive/piercing rounds, up to 12 Vikhr long range anti-tank missiles, 80 and 122mm rockets, 4 Igla Air-to-Air Missiles (AAMs),

 

Igla? Humm Interesting. ;) Will Lomac version of the Ka-50 have them?

[GGTharos]

Yhe Iglas weren't used either ... just like the 73.

[Kindred]

LOL, That was a quick response. Cant bring a man down for trying ;) . So the ka-50 never successfully launched an Igla?

 

At least, with all these searches, on the net about it. Makes me more familiar with the ka-50 that’s for sure

 

Edit: http://www.rusarm.ru/p_prod/airfor/ka50.htm

 

"air to air"

quantity 4

"Igla-V"

range 5,200

 

[britgliderpilot]

The web says a lot of things that aren't true ;)

 

 

If ED have Russian chopper pilots saying the opposite to the interweb, and details on the Ka50 from the Russian air force that say it doesn't carry A2A missiles . . . . . then I can't fault them for going with the more trustworth level of detail.

 

 

(edit - checked the link. Rusarm is THE export company for Russian gear . . . . and what the tend to list is not necessarily what an aircraft does in Russian service ;)

As an analogy . . . it'd be like the US listing the F16 Block 60 for export, despite the fact that it could only afford to put the F16 Block 10 into service itself. There's a big difference between the capabilities of the two.

 

If you are willing to pay for an export deal, the Russians will bolt on any goodie they can if you ask for it. That does NOT mean that the spec level in service carries all those goodies)

[Kindred]

In my research so far, found 2 links mentioned in this thread that Igla are included in the Ka-50 arsenal of weaponry. Basically thought the objection to include Air to Air with the lomac version was that in real life it was not feasible to have them or was not done or went trough and failed testing. But due that these links shows Igla in its arsenal, I would think that they did tested this weapon in real life. True it’s not in service. But again, this bird is still considered experimental, so why not simulated what they seemed to be selling sort of speak… ;)

 

edit: heres a 3 thrd link

 

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/helicopter-m/ka50/

 

Gun one 2A42 30-mm cannon (500 rds max, 280 rds typical) Stations 2 stub-wings with 4 hardpoints and 2 wingtip hardpoints Air-to-Air MissileR-60/AA-8 Aphid, R-73/AA-11 Archer, Igla-V Air-to-Surface Missile up to 12 AT-9 Ataka or AT-16 Vikhr anti-tank, Kh-25ML/AS-10 Karen anti-radiation, Kh-25MP/AS-12 Kegler Bomb FAB-250/500, KAB-500Kr Other up to four 20-round B-8 80-mm rocket pods, up to four 5-round 122-mm rocket pods, UPK-23-250 gun pod, GUV-8700 machine gun pod, PLAB weapons dispenser, chaff/flare pods

Still doing some research, having fun doing so :-)

[Kindred]

The "Vikhr-M" missile can penetrate of up to 900 mm of explosive reactive armor from the maximum launch distance of 10 km, which makes it the most deadly anti-tank missile in service around the world. This remarkable missile can also engage aircraft flying at speeds of up to 800 km/h. Even though the Ka-50 is capable of firing dedicated air-to-air missiles, the air-to-air capability of the "Vikhr-M" allows to maximize the efficiency of the available maximum 2,000-kg weapons load.

 

http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news001/news030.htm

 

Interesting & fun researching on this chopper :D