JTAC "No Mark"

[fjacobsen]

Is there an issue with 1.2.3 or is it just me.

 

I have setup a mission with a JTAC appr. 5 km from a group of enemy APC's

The JTAC is an armed HMMV set to LASE and ask for guided bombs.

 

I have checked in the mission that he should have a clear line of sight.

 

My A-10 is loaded with GBU-12.

 

When I contact the JTAC he tells me the target and that it will be marked with Laser.

Once I have read back the briefing he tells "No Mark" and I have to lase the target on my own.

 

In the JTAC comms menu I still have the options to Call LASE, SPOT and SHIFT.

 

Can someone please enlighten me on how different settings for the JTAC will affect the way he acts, like distance line off site, time of day, type og JTAC vehicle etc...

 

 

Fjacobsen

[Jona33]

Maybe out of range or the LOS is blocked.

[fjacobsen]

Hmm...

 

5 km is not out of range, the mission builder states that up to 10 km with LOS is Ok.

As I told, in the mission pressing F7 until my JTAC is selscted also shows that he has direct LOS to the target, which he also calls in the 9-line, but when he tells the remarks he says "No Mark".

 

Selecting SHIFT then causes DCS to crash.

 

BTW: Both the JTAC and the enemy group doesn´t move, so they don´t move out of LOS either.

 

Fjacobsen

[fjacobsen]

I now tried with a HMMV TOW and it worked.

I´m not sure if it is by coincidense, but nevertheless it would be great with a list about which unit has what capabilities.

 

Also during the 9-lin the JTAC should tell "No mark" or other means of marking.

 

The bug that cause DCS to CTD when SHIFT is selected and no lasing is done should be looked into.

 

Fjacobsen

[LeadDoctor]

I have the same issue. A mission I made worked for 1.22. I have troops 4,100ft (1.24968K) from the JTAC but he won't use the IR pointer now. He has a clear sight of view too. Worked before the Patch.

Edited March 24, 2013 by LeadDoctor
Using M1043 as JTAC

[Zenra]

Maybe the same issue -

 

I just replayed Bahger's excellent "Midnight Run" SP mission (one of my favorites) for the first time since upgrading to DCS World and I get "No mark" from JTAC for the Primary, which really messes things up since the JTAC used to laser designate the primary target, a bunker, and one of the coolest aspects of the mission is using laser spot search to find the mark.

 

I will experiment in the ME to see if the situation can be remedied; maybe it's just a version change thing.

[Headspace]

Check altitude. In the past it has tended to give no mark if you're extremely high up.

[Evil.Bonsai]

JTAC seems to have gotten quite wonky lately. I frequently get 'no mark' after getting it to work. Had a mission with an oh-58 that could not mark a tank, kept marking off to the side, then I'd get abort,abort, abort and no mark. Switched to a Stryker and it at least marked correctly, but then after telling jtac "IN" i'd get abort and no mark.

 

JTAC marking is VERY hit and miss, lately.

[fjacobsen]

In my mission I fly at 8000+ ft when I contact JTAC. With GBU-12 I think that this shouldn´t be too high ;)

 

Also having experimentet with JTAC and the P-51D I have found that placement of the JTAC relative to the assigned enemy group has a great impact on how the JTAC performs, though I still miss to findout what exactly makes them perform as expected or not.

 

Detailed explantion about which unit has what kind of markers, relative placement that determines whether it will be called type 1,2 or 3 etc... would be very welcomed.

 

 

Fjacobsen

Edited March 25, 2013 by fjacobsen

[fjacobsen]

Trying to call out loud again...

 

Can any of the developers or beta testers give us a more indepth description on JTAC mechanics in DCS world ?

 

-What unit is capable of doing what (JTAC capable units)?

-What kind of markers are availalble for the various types of vehicles ?

-At what distances from the JTAC assigned target are the various types in effect ?

-How does LOS work in detail ?

 

What I would like to know is simply how I can arrange my selfmade JTAC missions to perform as expected.

 

Right now it´s very confusing and requires too much trial and error without knowing why they suddently behave like they do, both good and bad.

 

 

Fjacobsen

[Evil.Bonsai]

Any unit with a weapon can perform jtac, and should have any mark available (wp/ir/laser). Not sure about the types.

 

LOS works so long as one vehicle can 'see' the other, with no ground or building in-between. Trees are see-through to AI.

[ENO]

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Mission_Editor:_JTAC_(Joint_Terminal_Attack_Controller)

 

 

That might help. If you set it for "start enroute task" instead of "perform command" (I think it is- with the FAC function available) it may help. Set to "visible" will allow you to engage without line of sight. Maybe that's the hiccup.

[fjacobsen]

Thanks guys !

 

Fjacobsen

[Zenra]

That might help. If you set it for "start enroute task" instead of "perform command" (I think it is- with the FAC function available) it may help. Set to "visible" will allow you to engage without line of sight. Maybe that's the hiccup.

fjacobsen, did this work for you?

 

As i posted on the mission thread, I've tried Midnight Run four times now under DCS World 1.2.3 and unfortunately it looks like something in this version keeps Warrior (the JTAC) from using a laser to designate the command bunker (the primary target). Everything he says is like before, except he says "no mark" and there a Laser Spot Search yields nothing.

 

I tried a couple of times as is, thinking I might be doing something wrong, and then I loaded it up in the ME to try a few things. Warrior Is set to mark "Auto", so I changed that to "Laser" hoping that would do the trick, but no joy. I can still take out the bunker by picking it out of the gloom with the TGP, but I like the concept of searching for the JTAC laser.

 

Any thoughts on what might have changed or how I might be able to edit the mission to get it to work as before will be appreciated!

[fjacobsen]

I got the JTAC to lase the targets for me - fine...

 

But in naoter mission with the P-51D I have setup JTAC to mark a coloumn of trucks with smoke.

It kind of works, they do mark with smoke, but a short time after they announce "No mark".

 

Oftne on my second run in, I call IP-inbound, but then get stuck.

The command IN does not appear and I have to checkout and then checkin again with JTAC.

 

I think that there is some flwas in the JTAC.

 

It would still be interesting to get deeper knowldge to how JTAC is supposed to work in DCS ans what causes the one or the other reactions from him.

 

Fjacobsen

[Bahger]

I'm pretty sure this is bugged. I set a FAC with eyes on a target to mark with smoke and in the 9-line sequence of commands, I hear "Marked by Willie Pete" then shortly afterwards, "No mark". This was never the case in earlier versions. I hope they fix it.

[Zenra]

Is this perhaps because smoke marks dissipate over time (they do)? Same would go for WP if that's the case. ED is that what y'all did?

 

It happens too fast to be explained by dissipating - would be cool if it did, though.

 

Just flew Bahger's new Patrol by Force mission (had a blast - highly recommed it) and the 9-line says the target (tanks in this case) will be marked by WP. About 2 seconds later JTAC calls "No mark."

[fjacobsen]

Before the new patch, JTAC would pop a new smoke marke for each pass when calling Inbound to IP.

Now he doesn´t - he pops one smoke and then calls "No mark".

 

While both ways seems right, there ares still something for the devs to look into.

 

And...

I still would like to get a deeper understanding of the JTAC cosing inorder to set them up in a much more predictible manner.

Like range from assigned target, difference between the Perform action "Assign Target" and Enroute action "Engage Target" etc.. etc..

 

Fjacobsen

[benargee]

JTAC seems to have gotten quite wonky lately. I frequently get 'no mark' after getting it to work. Had a mission with an oh-58 that could not mark a tank, kept marking off to the side, then I'd get abort,abort, abort and no mark. Switched to a Stryker and it at least marked correctly, but then after telling jtac "IN" i'd get abort and no mark.

 

JTAC marking is VERY hit and miss, lately.

 

YES! this keeps happening to me with any AFAC (airborne jtac) they ALWAYS mark about 50-100 feet to the side. I tested with UAV and A-10C (TGP) AI AFAC units and they also track moving targets but off 50-100 feet, sure its still useful for finding target area. Its useless for buddy lasing unless you're out to scare.