Landing advice needed.

[Cowboy10uk]

Ok guys, I now have 5 hrs of stick time, with the Huey, and my god what a stunning aircraft. I can do a cold and dark startup, take off, hover in ground effect, fly formation and even hit things with the weapon systems, however there is one thing still alluding me, which lets be honest is pretty crucial to living. ;) The landing.

 

It dosnt matter what I do, I always seem to end up a smoking hole in the ground. So please any tips would be greatfully received. I've watched whatever videos i can find, to give me hints, I've done circuits after circuits after circuits, but if when I try to land, I just lose control.

 

I tend to start the approach at around 90knots, and 1500ft. I pull stick back a bt to slow down, and lower collective to maintain 500 ft descent. At this point the nose tends to start wobbling, so I add a bit rudder.

 

By the time I've gotten to 400ft, I'm normally passing where I want to land, as I've not slowed down enough and I'm still at 40kts. So I continue to wherever I end up.

 

The speed continues to decay, until the aircraft starts shaking, the nose tends to start bucking all over the place, the descent suddenly jumps to 1000 - 1500 ft, the low rpm horn starts blaring, and I find myself either a smoking hole, or wobbling all over the place with my height going everywhere. It dosnt matter if I try it at different speeds, or at different rate of descent, the outcome is almost always the same, I'm practicing my cold and dark startup once again. :doh:

 

Now I know, there is no substitute for stick time and practice, and believe me I am going to be flying every hr I can. But is there any subtle hints I'm missing, that people can share.

 

I know she's a handful to handle and I'm fairly sure it's a vortex ring state I'm entering everytime, but how to avoid it, that's the big question.

 

Cowboy10uk

[wess24m]

A general rule I follow is if i'm at 45-50 knots my decent rate never goes "above" 500 FPM. Normally it's more like 100-200 max, I do all my descending while at speed (over 50 knots). When I start my (slight) flare i'm under 50 feet. Using that method you end up just above the ground when you're near 5-10 knots.

[ScottishMartialArts]

I'm not sure you need to be approaching from so high. The manual recommends that you be at roughly 500 feet at roughly 1 statute mile out. That said, my landings are really shaky too, but here's what advice I can offer:

 

Once you're on final approach, pitch up 3-4 degrees while decreasing collective to maintain altitude. The collective adjustment will necessitate pedal and cyclic adjustment as well, so respond accordingly to keep the helicopter stable. Once you're stable and the helicopter is beginning to slow down, lower collective (making necessary pedal and cyclic adjustments along the way) until you're descending at 500ft/min. At this point, you should be on a glide path for the landing point, with the landing point staying fixed in your windscreen, making collective adjustments as necessary if this is not the case. As your airspeed begins approaching 40KIAS, the aircraft is going to transition out of translational lift, meaning your rotors will become far less efficient, so you need to start adding collective back in to slow down your rate of descent and avoid a Vortex Ring State. Continue adding collective until you've arrested your descent and you are in a hover. Try to time your hover so that you are just above the Rotor in Ground Effect, otherwise entry into IGE as you are raising collective will probably result in you beginning to climb again. Once in a stable hover, lower collective and settle the aircraft into a gentle descent to the landing point.

 

Alternatively, I have found that the skids are pretty durable when it comes to landing while you still have forward velocity (not so much with excessive negative vertical velocity :P) and so it's feasible to make a (slow) airplane style landing. Simply continue your descent while operating just above the translational lift threshold, once IGE and just prior to the landing point flare so as to brake your forward velocity and vertical descent, coming to a short sliding stop on your skids.

[Vlerkies]

Its tough mate.

 

What I seem to have so far.

Keep your rate of decent to around the 250fpm mark to give you room to correct.

 

You can bleed a lot of excess or unwanted speed in turning to finals with the bank and easing off on the collective while maintaining alt.

I reckon this is going to be quite useful when getting into a hot LZ, a few months down the line when hopefully I don't wash out :)

Always make sure you land into the wind, even if its a gentle breeze.

 

WATCH the airpeed and rate of decent.

 

Airspeed: if you keep that sucker just over 20 knots you wont fly like an anvil. Anything over 20 and she seems to do ok, even with decent rate over 500fpm its not freefall.

Beyond that is where she falls like a stone. (vrs or transition to hover or both, dunno?)

 

I'm trying to approach with a goal airspeed of +- 30 knots, slowly ease off the collective while increasing the pitch, to bleed if necessary.

For me, that 20 knot mark seems to be the make or break parameter where the Huey will move/transition to a hover.

I find that if I can manage my rate of decent with collective inputs when it crosses this 'airspeed barrier', I stand a better chance at least.

Excuse my non pilot terminology :)

 

I'm way off being proficient at this but maybe it will help.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Vlerkies

[Kroll]

Nice. Video, thanks. I'm having the same problem. Everything is smooth then all hell breaks loose around 40kts. Maybe it's my descent rate also I've never added more collective as I've slowed down. I'll have to try those things.

[EvilBivol-1]

If you watch the landing training video, pay attention to how much the collective and left pedal input begins to increase as it slows down below 50 knots. This is a result of the helicopter losing translational lift, requiring more collective pitch to maintain the same amount of lift. The slower you are, the more collective you need. The more collective you need, the more left pedal you need. Try to keep the deceleration slow enough to give yourself time to watch the speed indicator, VVI, and react to the changes as speed drops below 40.

 

Edited May 3, 2013 by EvilBivol-1

[Kroll]

If you watch the landing training video, pay attention to how much the collective and left pedal input begins to increase as it slows down below 50 knots. This is a result of the helicopter losing translational lift, requiring more collective pitch to maintain the same amount of lift. The slower you are, the more collective you need. The more collective you need, the more left pedal you need. Try to keep the deceleration slow enough to give yourself time to watch the speed indicator, VVI, and react to the changes as speed drops below 40.

 

 

Thanks,

 

I'll try it tomorrow. Can you explain the throttle with regards to the Huey? Is it always full throttle? Do we reduce it in cruise flight? I get that it is used for higher rotor rpm. Anything else?

 

Thanks.

[EvilBivol-1]

Thanks,

 

I'll try it tomorrow. Can you explain the throttle with regards to the Huey? Is it always full throttle? Do we reduce it in cruise flight? I get that it is used for higher rotor rpm. Anything else?

 

Thanks.

As long as the governor is working normally (no damage), you just keep the throttle in full power.

[doright]

As long as the governor is working normally (no damage), you just keep the throttle in full power.

 

Maybe I'm not doing it right but descents from high altitude (1000ft+) cruise flight seem to be easier if you dial back the throttle some, otherwise the rotor over speeds.

[Lord_Pyro]

You really can tell your hight and speed during landings? Have you ever tried not to do it by the book? Just land. Dont think about your hight, speed or angle, just look on the ground where you want to get groundcontact, aim a bit before that, bring it down there, just before groundcontact flare a bit and land where you initially wanted by reducing the liftpower.

 

I dont get why many folks stick to checklists and procedures for startups and stuff like landing. Unless you land on a carrier or under bad weatherconditions there is no need for ils approach in dcs. You should know the gerneral speedlimit but to be honest i would recommend you to fly as slow as possible on the verge of a stall, so you reduce the braking distance.

So try to just see and feel where your chopper is going to be and if you fear him to get down too quickly, apply,more liftpower. But keep your eyes out of the cockpit, landing is no magic.

[WildBillKelsoe]

RoT: 10kts for every 50 ft.

[darkstar130]

The rumbling is passing through ETL, my instructor told me to ride the rumble. I start my final at 60kts and -300fpm once I'm about 150-200 ft I slow it down to 45kts, then have my altitude and airspeed end at the same time. I never dip below -400fpm. You'll be okay and won't settle with power if you don't go below that.

[Vlerkies]

(manual out the window) :music_whistling:

 

Here's my current state of an imaginary hot LZ for extraction.

Aiming for the white gravel square on the airfield.

 

My first attempt would have seen the poor grunts getting shot to pieces crossing a lot of open ground. Thats the army for ye. :smilewink:

2nd one a bit better.