Strange problem with this plane

[Irregular programming]

Well, the early version of the sim had it all wrong - even the AI crashed on the take-off demonstration mission.

 

The AI has an extremely simplified flight model, it doesn't have to deal with any of this.

 

 

And the torque seems fine to me, it's not even difficult to take off now.

[Weta43]

The AI has an extremely simplified flight model, it doesn't have to deal with any of this.

 

It's simplified, don't know about extremely simplified.

I think E.D. have said in the past AI FMs are at the same level of modelling as the player SFM(s)

[Echo38]

Anyway what you cannot do i s apply to much throttle at the start. I am not sure about it, but I heard that it is possible to firewall the throttle on take-off in the real plane. In DCS that is a big NO NO. You need to roll slowly to be able to use rudder to control the roll.

 

I always firewall the throttle on takeoff, regardless of fuel load. On takeoff, I go from idle to military power as fast as I can without endangering the engine--so, maybe a second and a half. I am able to keep the aircraft straight. The key is back-stick (until you get enough airflow over the rudder) and good rudder work (probably not possible without pedals--I sure wouldn't want to try it with a twisty-stick). I'll admit, it took me many failed attempts and more than a few crashes to get the hang of it. (It would be significantly easier I.R.L. because of tactile feedback, the feel from both the controls and the seat of your pants, and also because of vastly improved vision--improved zoom & FoV and other things.)

 

One thing that I didn't see mentioned in this thread is the rear fuel tank & how it messes up CoG. Different missions might be giving you different amounts of fuel, which can seriously alter the aircraft's center of gravity. The P-51 had a particular problem with this because of the odd location of the rear fuel tank relative to the aircraft's CoG. A full rear tank makes it much more difficult to keep the aircraft under control.

 

I confess I didn't watch the track, but the single most common mistake that I see in takeoffs is flying off the ground at too high an angle of attack--most inexperienced VFPs never raise the tail, and so they take off nose high. But do watch when you raise the tail; too soon and you'll have uncontrollable gyroscopic yaw (insufficient airflow over the rudder to counter even with full rudder), and too late and it'll takeoff on its own at max alpha, which will generally result in a stall as soon as you leave the ground effect (a couple of short seconds after your wheels leave the ground).

 

No pedals is actually easier - I only started having problems when I switched from X-52 to CH.

 

You were already accustomed to twisty-stick when you started using pedals, yes? You have to un-learn the bad habits and then learn the good ones, which can be a frustrating process. However, once you have at least as much experience with pedals as you did with twisty, I think you'll come to appreciate that the pedals are superior. We aren't talking about the subjective comfort which can result from being accustomed to something--we're talking about a mathematical absolute; given similar quality of manufacture, pedals are absolutely more precise than a twisty stick due to the (many times) greater throw, and other physical phenomenon. (If necessary, I suppose I could explain further; I hope it's sufficient to point out that real fighters all use pedals and not twisty sticks.)

 

By the way, the CH pedals are not very good pedals ... much too close together compared to a real fighter's pedals. See here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1710536&postcount=3 (They're also plastic, which is looser than metal and wears faster.) Still, better than nothing. Airliners have pedals like that, and they work for general use. They will be, however, more difficult to make fine motions with than wider-spaced pedals.

 

Still, I think that the sideways show need to be fixed somehow, at least the gear or tires should brake before you can go all drift king.

 

That's what I thought, until someone posted a link to a video of a real P-51 skidding sideways on the ground after a very nasty bump: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9XuMylC7gSc

One of the gear was bent, but not enough that the aircraft was unable to taxi. The sim's about right.

 

I think those results are a product of a few disadvantages to the virtual pilot... Firstly most new pilots didn't go near a P-51 until after many hours of flight training on less formidable aircraft. (once a pilot got to a P-51 he was on his own. No instructor along for the ride) The ones who couldn't master the training aircraft did not proceed. Secondly, no matter what time you've spent in "other" sims, DCS is on a different level and there are many new things for us all to learn.

 

[Nod] But there's another, one I find myself always mentioning: sim/game controllers suck. They just do. I'm sure that somewhere, someone has a custom-built one that feels more or less like the real thing, but every commercial simming stick I've handled (and I've handled many) is absolutely horrid compared to a real aircraft stick.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Echo38

[WildBillKelsoe]

generally, I trim 6X6, tail heavy, right rudder tab, neutral stick always works... just keep the wind direction blowing from your left to right hand and you should be good.

 

For takeoff, hold brakes and slowly increase throttle to 30'' M.P., release and do 1'' increases every three seconds. You should, according to my method have liftoff at 45-50'' MP and 3000 RPM.

 

Also, should you require to use WEP, make sure both radiator coolant scoops are fully open (30 seconds each) and both ram air levers forward. Ascent and gain altitude. I survived a mission with 6 aircrafts just by watching 5 mins elapse for WEP, then throttling down to 46X2700 and finding the sweet spot just to keep the oil temperature in the green (the top big arc)

 

hope this helps.

[Der_Fred]

You don't need to go full power on take off.

If you keep the tail wheel locked.. 'pull stick slightly back until you feel it'

and wait till speed get to a few mph before take off.

Here your rudder trim takes effect as you push stick slightly forward, and hold direction with rudder - it's only a sec or 2 before she come unstuck.

Bank to the right slightly if your drifting.. wheels up and then start trimming.

 

If you treat her like an animal, it'll behave like one. : - )

[Der_Fred]

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?25120-P-51-tips-from-a-real-pilot

[Der_Fred]

This is from the IL2 forums... be flexible and learn something :-)

[Echo38]

Generally speaking, real warbird pilots (then and now) take off with military power. I take off with military power in the sim, and I don't have any problem keeping my bird straight on the runway. It just takes some practice and some half-way decent pedals. Taking off with reduced power is a bad habit--it may be easier to control the bird, but I.R.L. it's dangerous and could bite you in the rear someday if you do it often enough.

[Pman]

Generally speaking, real warbird pilots (then and now) take off with military power. I take off with military power in the sim, and I don't have any problem keeping my bird straight on the runway. It just takes some practice and some half-way decent pedals. Taking off with reduced power is a bad habit--it may be easier to control the bird, but I.R.L. it's dangerous and could bite you in the rear someday if you do it often enough.

 

Not out to cause an argument but just saying that the Mustang pilots I have spoken to do not run at full military power for take off.

 

Just saying

[Merlin-27]

I think this brings us to another WW2/Modern comparison.

 

With lesser octane fuel ratings available, most classic Mustangs are not flown at full power. Recently, I read a really good historical document however that discussed the need for P-51 combat pilots to always take off at 61" or above. I think it was mainly to avoid spark plug fowling and subsequent disaster on take-off.

 

EDIT: Spark plug FOULING. I'm not aware of any birds causing problems INSIDE the engine.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Merlin-27