Decent mid range joystick

[stokka]

Hey, I currently have a Saitek Av8r-01, and it has worked Ok, up until this point, it's starting to mess up though, where when flying it will just throw me in random directions, and I have to unplug it, leave it for a bit, and plug it back in, I know it's the joystick, as I will take my hands off it, and my plane will be doing aileron rolls, until I unplug it, and it will stop spinning.

 

So I'm in the market for a new Joystick, eventually I plan on getting the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog stick, but have some other things higher on the list.

 

Right now looking for a good stick in and around the 100$ range, to last until I can get the HOTAS WH. (also side question, does the warthog stick work well for the other modules?)

 

Thank you for any advice, it is much appreciated.

[BIGNEWY]

Personally I love my warthog and will never use any other.

 

However many of my friends use the x52pro and love it, and its good value for money.

 

edit

 

I used a second hand x45 for a long time before getting a warthog, did me a great service :)

[stokka]

The x52 pro looks nice, a little more than I wanted to spend on an interim joystick, but maybe I can find a deal somewhere, the x52 however looks decent, and where I want to be in price range, is the pro that much better than the basic version? Also can you hook rudder pedals up to either?

[howie87]

My advice is to just get the warthog.

 

It's built like a tank and works brilliantly for the other modules in my opinion. The spit throttles and idle cutoff switches are great for the KA50 and Huey as you can control throttle, collective and fuel valves without having to use up any buttons.

 

The initial outlay is pretty high but if you buy quality, you only cry once.

 

If you really can't afford that and won't be able to for a good while yet, I'd go with something like the X-52 pro or you run the risk of not having enough buttons for modules like the A-10C.

 

I actually know a few guys who say they wouldn't swap their X-52's for a warthog (not that I believe them!)

[cichlidfan]

As others have mentioned it, I will also bring up the X-52 Pro as a good choice. In fact, I would be inclined to say it is really the only 'mid-range' option. Anything less, is really lower end, having too few buttons at best and not even having a separate throttle at worst.

 

My understanding, having never used a non-pro, is the build quality is better. I also hate the look of the non-pro but that is a personal issue. ;)

[howie87]

Regarding the X-52 pro - I believe it comes with hall effect sensors (like the warthog) so it shouldn't lose its accuracy over time like the X-52 pro as there are no potentiometers.

 

Probably worth the extra cash in my opinion for that feature alone.

 

This article points out the other differences:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_104d.html

[stokka]

If I could jut up and but the TM HOTAS Warthog stick I would, but right now I have other obligations. If I were to not buy an interim stick, and just save up for the TM HOTAS stick, then I would be out of the game for a few months, which wouldn't be very fun. I do plan on getting it eventually, just need to put it on the wishlist for now, and get something a little less nice in the meantime. Going to go scouting on a deal for the X52 pro soon though, thanks for the advice.

 

Also can the X52 pro take rudder pedals?

[stokka]

Regarding the X-52 pro - I believe it comes with hall effect sensors (like the warthog) so it shouldn't lose its accuracy over time like the X-52 pro as there are no potentiometers.

 

Probably worth the extra cash in my opinion for that feature alone.

 

This article points out the other differences:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_104d.html

 

 

Article is banned at work, but I will read it when home, thank you for the info.

[howie87]

(according to this forum: http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=17147)

 

Other differences are:

 

1. Tri-state LEDs (which are also accessible by the SDK)

2. Dual spring centering mechanism - provides incremental stiffness as you move the stick away from centre

3. Dual hall effect sensors for increased accuracy of the stick axes

4. Metal shaft and centering mechanism for increased durability

5. Selected metal parts

[stokka]

Yeah, judging from the opinions I'm getting here, it sounds like X52 Pro is the way to go, until I can get my hands on the TM Hotas, thanks so much everyone for all the help, really appreicated.

[cichlidfan]

Article is banned at work, but I will read it when home, thank you for the info.

 

Hmmm, SimHQ is blocked but ED's forum isn't. Sometimes it is useful being under the radar, so to speak. ;)

[stokka]

Hmmm, SimHQ is blocked but ED's forum isn't. Sometimes it is useful being under the radar, so to speak. ;)

 

Yeah, they're very weird about what's blocked. But I shouldn't complain as most of the sites I use are unblocked.

[104th_Maverick]

Another suggestion...

 

I use a Saitek x52 Throttle but with a Logitech 3d Pro Joystick (don't like the x52 stick)

 

I've used 3d Pro's for about 10 years now, absolutely brilliant joysticks, by far the best thing you can for sensible money.

 

In the long run however your probably better getting something a bit more upmarket, the Logitech is great but I find with heavy usage you need to replace them after about 8 months. I've probably spent the same amount of money as a Warthog, upgrading my joystick to a newer model... but hey ho! £40 every 8 months or so is not as bad as £400+ for WH setup with pedals etc.

 

So if your looking for a cheaper half way house option try and find someone selling just the Saitek x52 throttle and get your hands on a new 3d Pro joystick!

 

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-gb/product/extreme-3d-pro-joystick

[Windsortheater]

Ebay x52pro is the way to go.

 

I picked up one for $80 bucks from a liquidator on ebay. Showed up and pitch axis was intermittent, jumping all over. Emailed the seller who refunded $60 (firgured 20$ for just the throttle was a good deal even if the stick doesn't work as I had a 3dPRO like the poster above - nice stick by the way, just needs more 4-ways).

 

Proceeded to then open up the joystick, soldered the loose ground wire (high suspicion it pretty much had to be a bad ground) and now have an X52pro for $20 bucks!

 

Overall the HOTAS is nice. Could use another 4 way on the stick but... meh.. It's ok. Also I find the base of the stick is quite thick... so it sits pretty high on the desk but I'm used to it now.

 

Nice thing about the X52 lineup is there are a million profiles and maps easily downloaded... saved me lots of time configuring games like BMS and DCS A-10C.

[Hamblue]

The X52 is a different animal than the X52 pro. I would go with the X52 pro if you can afford it. The X52 is a decent stick but has very little spring tension. The pro version feels so much better. :thumbup:

[VincentLaw]

I got a new x45 for $80 years ago, and I don't think it even made it to 2 years before it wore out beyond usability (The sensors got jittery and had dead spots.)

 

in 2006 or 2007, I replaced it with a $20 AV8R-01, and aside from the throttles getting loose (so they will slip to 100% if you don't readjust them regularly), it has only now just started wearing out. Also, the dual throttle capability is wonderful. Even in the P-51, it is nice to have the RPM on its own axis.

 

So this is my problem with buying an expensive replacement joystick. Why pay $80 for something that lasts 2 years, when you can pay $20 for something that lasts 6 years? When I spend more money on something, I expect it to last longer. Also, based on what I said, the single throttle on the x52 is a deal breaker for me.

[Sokol1_br]

Regarding the X-52 pro - I believe it comes with hall effect sensors (like the warthog) so it shouldn't lose its accuracy over time like the X-52 pro as there are no potentiometers.

 

Both versions of X-52, normal and PRO version use HALL sensor in X and Y axis. In X-52 PRo are two HALL sensor per axis.

And both model need magnet relocation to be "perfect". :D

 

The most noticeable difference between two versions are dual spring in X-52 PRO.

 

 

Key differences between the X52 and the X52 Pro - only the MFD on the Pro can be used with the SDK.

Other differences are:

 

1. Tri-state LEDs (which are also accessible by the SDK)

2. Dual spring centering mechanism - provides incremental stiffness as you move the stick away from centre

3. Dual hall effect sensors for increased accuracy of the stick axes

4. Metal shaft and centering mechanism for increased durability

5. Selected metal parts

Source: Saitek forum.

 

Sokol1_Br

Edited September 27, 2013 by Sokol1_br

[cichlidfan]

Both versions of X-52, normal and PRO version use HALL sensor in X and Y axis. In X-52 PRo are two HALL sensor per axis.

And both model need magnet relocation to be "perfect". :D

 

The most noticeable difference between two versions are dual spring in X-52 PRO.

 

Thanks for the clarification. :thumbup:

[hollywoodvillain]

Having owned most all joysticks that have ever been developed, I just have to throw in my 2 cents. I really hate to see people waste their hard earned money on the x52. Its absolute junk IMO for the $ you spend. Research what the difference between stiction and friction is, and you can better understand its problems. Anyone who recommends x52 has not tried anything else. Go with Thrustmaster T.16000m. Hands down the best in its class. Way more accurate than x52, and its stiction and friction are the same. Its throw is like a dream come true. Zero deadzone. It uses the same sensors as WH so you know you're getting something special. But like most people, you probley wont believe me cause you can't understand why they can make a joystick so good for so cheap, and you'll end up getting the saitek and suffering through it until you get a hog. But don't say I didn't warn you

[Sokol1_br]

T16.000M is good but have some drawbacks (like any stick have):

 

6 base buttons on right side of stick (for use of left hand people) is almost useless due placement (inverse for left hand people).

Cheap potentiometers in rudder and throttle, in mine rudder pot start spike with ~8 mount of moderated use.

"Heavy" center spring (good for ones/bad for others).

End course deadzone: the X,Y HALL sensor stop reading before joystick handle reach your physical course (# ~5/10%). In game you reach 100% of elevator course thinking still under 90/95%...

 

For DIY oriented user all this above is easy to improve.

 

Sokol_Br

[stokka]

Having owned most all joysticks that have ever been developed, I just have to throw in my 2 cents. I really hate to see people waste their hard earned money on the x52. Its absolute junk IMO for the $ you spend. Research what the difference between stiction and friction is, and you can better understand its problems. Anyone who recommends x52 has not tried anything else. Go with Thrustmaster T.16000m. Hands down the best in its class. Way more accurate than x52, and its stiction and friction are the same. Its throw is like a dream come true. Zero deadzone. It uses the same sensors as WH so you know you're getting something special. But like most people, you probley wont believe me cause you can't understand why they can make a joystick so good for so cheap, and you'll end up getting the saitek and suffering through it until you get a hog. But don't say I didn't warn you

 

Ok, well I'm glad everywhere I went today was sold out of X52 pros, I think I will order this stick off Amazon, one thing though, is it possible to get seperate a throttle for it?

[Echo38]

Although, as Sokol pointed out, the T.16000M has its drawbacks, I must agree with Hollywoodvillain's assessment of the X52 (non-Pro); its center precision is unacceptable for competitive dogfighting or any other high-precision activity. Never used the Pro, so can't comment on that. You might be able to get more detailed info with a search of past posts of mine using X52 and T.16000M as keywords; I believe I've written a very thorough comparison of most of the mainstream "mid" joysticks at least once on this forum.

[cichlidfan]

... is it possible to get seperate a throttle for it?

 

Aside from a possible used sale, I have never seen the throttle sold separately.

 

If your intention is to run two throttles at one time...it might work, though I am sure you will have to map the buttons directly in game, since the throttle contains the connection to the PC (The stick is connected via a PS2 cable to the throttle).

[stokka]

Although, as Sokol pointed out, the T.16000M has its drawbacks, I must agree with Hollywoodvillain's assessment of the X52 (non-Pro); its center precision is unacceptable for competitive dogfighting or any other high-precision activity. Never used the Pro, so can't comment on that. You might be able to get more detailed info with a search of past posts of mine using X52 and T.16000M as keywords; I believe I've written a very thorough comparison of most of the mainstream "mid" joysticks at least once on this forum.

 

Hmm, ok, right now kind of stuck between the Logitech 3D, and the T.16000M, is there anything anyone else might suggest? I would prefer one with a separate throttle, and minimal dead zone. Does anyone have an opinion on the Madcatz Saitek Cyborg F.L.Y. 5, looks hideous, but has a dual throttle.

 

:helpsmilie:

Edited September 28, 2013 by stokka

[Echo38]

Logitech 3D is garbage for precision. Unacceptable for competitive dogfighting. That goes for damn-near all Logitech joysticks, although I've been told that their most expensive one was okay (but they're no longer producing that, and it was super-expensive anyway).

 

Unfortunately, there isn't a mass-produced simming joystick in the world that was made by a hardcore simmer, or by anyone with an in-depth understanding of hardcore simming & real aviation. For this reason, there are no really good simming joysticks commercially available, unless you're lucky enough to have gotten one of the limited-production ones which pop up from time to time from a small shop (invariably, I think, the basements of serious-simmers who are handy with tools). So the idea is to get the joystick which sucks the least, more than trying to find one that's good. They've all got large problems--even the $500 Warthog has a few shortcomings.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Echo38