Left engine blows up on take-off?!

[Raven_Morpheus]

Hello

 

Just recently started with DCS World, have been playing DCS Black Shark but wanted to see if DCS World would run on my rig to get an indication of the FPS I'm likely to get with DCS Black Shark 2...

 

Anyhoo, long story short I'm having a problem getting off the ground in one of the single missions.

 

The mission is Long Day.

 

I've done the tutorial for taking off to familiarise myself with getting the SU-25 off the ground and I took off without a problem first time.

 

 

When I get control of the plane at the start of Long Day I check to make sure my flaps are down, and they appear to be already.

 

Then, whilst holding the wheel brake, I throttle up to 100%. Then I have to let go of the wheel brake because the plane rolls forwards anyway.

 

When I reach over 230 I gently pull back on the stick as instructed in the tutorial (I knew that anyway as I've played IL2 1946 for years so I know the basics of how to fly a plane).

 

It's at that point, or just before, that something goes wrong and no matter what I do when I'm airborne I either explode or end up crashing!!

 

I've checked the replay of one of my attempts and it appears the left engine is blowing up on me and is a massive fireball!!!

 

 

So, what am I doing wrong?

Edited December 13, 2013 by Raven_Morpheus

[159th_Falcon]

230 sounds awfully low for take-off.

Especially fueled up and whit a weapons load out.

(dont now the mission)

 

Try something like 280 to 320 and see how that goes.

Also note that the SU25(T) has two flap positions.

One step down is for combat and take-off

Full down is for landing

[Raven_Morpheus]

Hmm, OK thanks.

 

I was actually taking off at about 250, but I'll try faster than that.

 

The flaps are already set when I start the mission so I presume they're in the take off position as I'm on the runway ready to take off?

 

 

My left engine doesn't always blow though, other times I just get a Master Caution warning with that annoying woman saying something in Russian over and over...

 

When that happens I've looked outside using F2 but I can't spot what's wrong.

 

I did manage to get off the ground successfully once though with no Master Caution or any other problems, or so it seemed, but then I had a weird beeping sound (not the Master Caution) going off all the time I was flying - no idea what that was?!

 

And it doesn't help that despite selecting English in the options the cockpit textures all have russian labels on the knobs/dials/switches panels etc...

 

 

I've attached two tracks to show you what I mean wrt to the failures. WTH is the exploding left engine and WTH2 is the Master Caution warning.

Tracks.rar

[159th_Falcon]

Ill have a look once my DCS W is updated.

 

Well, that went quicker then expected.

First off, your take-off speed is good, track showed about 300 km/h. (maybe you were referring to 230 knots?)

 

About what's happening, not sure. First track could be a bird strike.

Second track both your hydraulic systems fail.

 

Looked in the mission options and in the editor, but couldn't find any preset random system failures.

Though you do have the bird strike slider set to 50%.

 

That could explain the first track, but not the 2nd, do you have random failures enabled in your own game options?

Only thing i can think of.

 

Or maybe the mission got corrupted after an update, try opening it in the editor, safe it under a different name and try to fly it, see what happens.

Edited December 13, 2013 by 159th_Falcon

[Raven_Morpheus]

Thanks.

 

I just tried letting the plane get to 300 and trying to lift off but the same thing happened, only this time it was my right engine that blew.

 

Very confusing.

 

This is why I gave up a while back with fixed wing and went rotary, heli's are so much easier to get off the ground. :D

 

 

 

I'll try the mission editor thing, although I'm using a completely fresh install of 1.2.6 that I put on this morning. WRT to the bird strike slider - it just says "birds" in the options so I had no idea that meant bird strikes. I'm guessing I should reduce that, is there any "recommended" value for that? I'm guessing 50% means that half the time I get hit by a bird strike?

 

Random system failures is unchecked.

 

I did just try another mission, to see if it's the mission that was causing the problem (the ramp takeoff mission) but I got lost on the taxiway, ended up thinking I was on the runway when I was still on the taxi way and crashed on take off, so that was another failure.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Raven_Morpheus

[Darkwolf]

a "Bird strike" is when you get hit by a bird that decided to stay in your path.

 

Technically in DCS, birds aren't exactly modeled as an entity in the engine, but with a script simulate the percentage of chance to hit a bird depending on your altitude, and can be "influenced" by the "bird" slider. So in the game, the bird strike is a random event that usually kills one of your engine. Even tho - Unless sliders are set at maximum, it's quite a very rare event and does not lead to aircraft complete destruction, unless you just crash afterward :)

 

you can read more in the link below :

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike

[159th_Falcon]

Lol, try the F2 view and use the scroll wheel of your mouse to zoom out.

Should help navigate round the taxi-ways.

 

Something else you can do is make a simple "mission" yourself.

 

Open the mission editor, and the LH side is a column of icons.

Look for the plane and click it.

 

Now left click somewhere on the map, doesnt matter where.

An icon should appear reprecenting the plane.

 

In the RH column that now popped up select Russia as a country,

Airplane as SU-25T

and under type chose "take off from runway"

 

Go back to the LH column again and look for the green checkmark, click it to fly your mission.

No need to save it.

 

(in 1.2.6 the checkmark could have a different color, believe it's blue but not sure)

 

Try flying that mission a couple times, and see what happens.

 

If all goes OK its something whit the Long Day mission

If the same happens well, i'm clue less really.

 

In addition to the post above, here is how the slider works;

ED has looked up how common bird strike are in real life during certain flight phases and altitudes.

Setting the slider to 100% means the bird strike likelihood corresponds to real life data

Setting it to 200% doubles the likelihood of a birdstrike when compared to real life data

Setting it to 50% cuts the likelihood of a birdstrike in halve when compared to real life data

Edited December 13, 2013 by 159th_Falcon

[Raven_Morpheus]

Definitely a problem with that Long Day mission, or at least my copy.

 

I just tried a mission in the mission editor (I generated one at random), and I tried the Ramp Start single mission again also and managed to find the runway this time. :D

 

In both the randomly generated mission editor mission and the Ramp Start single mission I took off just fine, and there was nothing making a noise or complaining at all once I was in the air.

 

I tried opening the Long Day mission in the mission editor and saved it as a another file as suggested and that didn't work, when I tried it I had the hydraulics failure on one attempt and on a 2nd attempt both engines blew up on me!!

 

So, I know it's that mission, just need to work out exactly what...

Edited December 13, 2013 by Raven_Morpheus

[159th_Falcon]

Could be a lot of things, even some surface clipping on that particular side of the runway on that airfield causing a blown tire and subsequent damages.

 

As for the voice warnings, that's eiter Bitching Betty or Nagging Nadia.

Just like real wifes, they keep moaning about what's wrong but are to lazy to do **** all about and they keep going until you shut em up.

(Rshift + N your mileage might vary on your own wife/girlfriend though)

[Raven_Morpheus]

Hmm, yeah, but I've come over to the other side (right hand side) of the runway on at least one run, and not made it. I'll see if I can go down the exact middle or try for the right hand side again, although there is a guy behind me that might crash into me...

 

If that doesn't work I'll write that mission off for now, I'm really only using DCS World to evaluate the likely framerate I'll get with Black Shark 2. I'm more of a helicopters guy at the moment, and if I do fly fixed wing aircraft I'm more suited to the slower WW2 stuff.

 

Thanks for the RShift+N tip, that'll come in handy.

 

I worked out what the beeping noise I kept hearing is - whilst doing the cannon/rockets mission (the one with the ship) I noticed on the right hand side below the TV screen is an indicator that keeps lighting up. Apparently that's the RWS and tells you what direction threats are in. I suppose it'll come in handy but so far I've just found it a pita with it's constant bleeping...

 

Thanks for the help though, shame that Long Day mission seems to be bugged for me but at least there are others and the mission editor and what looks like a small campaign. Should keep me mildly entertained until I get the money to upgrade BS1 to BS2.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Raven_Morpheus

[Psyrixx]

I've also put together a fairly in-depth tutorial for the Su25T, you might consider giving Part 1 and 2 a watch as I go over all of the necessary steps for startup, taxi (how to find the runway and orient to the proper one), takeoff, etc.

 

 

Might be a mission problem, might be something you missed. In any case, the videos are full of great information. :)

[159th_Falcon]

Ah, so you hearth the Radar Warning Receiver going of.

 

Very useful tool indeed, once you understand how it works. Then again, if your not all that serious about flying the SU-25T might as well turn down its volume.

 

Believe the key combination is;

Volume down: Ralt ,

Volume up: Ralt .

(comma and period)

 

Mind you though, Black Shark 2 will run at a lower FPS then the Flaming Cliffs 3 aircraft of which the SU-25T is a part of. (well was, but that's a detail in this case)

[Raven_Morpheus]

I've also put together a fairly in-depth tutorial for the Su25T, you might consider giving Part 1 and 2 a watch as I go over all of the necessary steps for startup, taxi (how to find the runway and orient to the proper one), takeoff, etc.

 

 

Might be a mission problem, might be something you missed. In any case, the videos are full of great information. :)

 

 

 

Thanks I'll take a look at those.

 

I don't see what I could have missed though, the mission starts with myself and my wingman on the runway (I'm on the left side of the runway, he's a little behind and to my right), and the engines are already spooled up and I'm ready to take off it seems, aside from flaps being on landing from what I can tell.

[159th_Falcon]

In that mission your ready for take-off. Even whit flaps on full down.

Might not be ideal, but certainly should not cause any troubles.

Pretty sure the mission is borked. Question is, how?

[esb77]

Well it must be an update caused issue, (or corruption of the file) because I know I've flown Long Day multiple times in the past without issue.

 

I'll see if I can get around to saving my current version, then I'll update and take a look at the most recent version from updates.

 

On at least one of the missions there is a trigger that blows the left engine on RTB (something like 10 to 20 km out) after you've completed the other objectives. But if you've made it that far in the campaign, engine shutdowns and emergency landing are things that you should be very experienced with.

 

You should not be having trouble with takeoffs though.

 

Mystery master caution could be a matter of operating flaps and gear at the same time. That drops hydraulic pressure enough to trigger warning lights, but you can safely ignore it.

Edited December 13, 2013 by esb77

[quyes]

You mention the mission has you and the wingman starting on the runway ready for takeoff and also that you've tried taking off on different sides of the runway....

 

Is your wingman running into you on takeoff?? This can actually happen quite easily.

[Bimbac]

Just to clarify things up: both Su-25 and Su-25T have 3 flaps positions:

 

Full up: normal flight

Middle: maneuvering (attack)

Full down: take-off, landing.

 

When taking-off, first set flaps to "maneuvering" position, and after the airspeed starts to increase, bring the flaps fully up.

[esb77]

Updated DCS, flew mission, no problems.

 

Couldn't get CCIP to work for me, but I actually managed to land some PTABs on tanks with CCRP which is an abnormally good bombing run for me.

 

Maybe you're just getting very unlucky with birdstrikes?

[Raven_Morpheus]

You mention the mission has you and the wingman starting on the runway ready for takeoff and also that you've tried taking off on different sides of the runway....

 

Is your wingman running into you on takeoff?? This can actually happen quite easily.

 

 

Nope. Checked that. He takes off just fine each and every time. Most of the time he overtakes me before I've even got up to speed.

 

 

Updated DCS, flew mission, no problems.

 

Couldn't get CCIP to work for me, but I actually managed to land some PTABs on tanks with CCRP which is an abnormally good bombing run for me.

 

Maybe you're just getting very unlucky with birdstrikes?

 

 

Must be. Because 9/10 times I get an engine blow up and the other 1 time it's a hydraulics failure. I think the time I did get airborne with no problems was a fluke.

 

 

Could someone who can take off fine in the Long Day mission perhaps attach the file to a post so that I may download it and check it - to rule out it being a problem with the file I've got being corrupted?

[esb77]

Ok, long day1.miz is an older version, long day.miz is updated as of today

 

I normally fly with birdstrikes set to zero, on the basis that in general, I can find much more creative and interesting ways to destroy the plane than they can.

 

Both versions worked for me when I flew them, and there's probably not any difference in the mission files, but I included an old and new just to be on the safe side.

Su-25T - Long day.miz

Su-25T - Long day1.miz

[karambiatos]

i took off just fine, maybe you are pulling too hard on the stick, or something?

[Raven_Morpheus]

Ok, long day1.miz is an older version, long day.miz is updated as of today

 

I normally fly with birdstrikes set to zero, on the basis that in general, I can find much more creative and interesting ways to destroy the plane than they can.

 

Both versions worked for me when I flew them, and there's probably not any difference in the mission files, but I included an old and new just to be on the safe side.

 

 

Thanks for that.

 

 

Really odd though. I tried your version of the mission (the Long Day.miz, not Long Day1.miz) and I could take off perfectly fine.

 

Then I went back and tried my copy of the same mission...

 

...and took off perfectly fine, three times in a row!

 

Only thing I did was drop in your mission file (with a slightly different file name), I didn't make any settings changes or do anything differently at all and I also tried it without your mission file and that mission now works flawlessly wrt take off (haven't quite worked out what I'm doing yet to be able to get much further than taking off and flying around a bit).

 

 

Now I really am confused. :huh::huh:

 

 

Perhaps as Karambiatos said, I was pulling too hard on the stick, but then I was taking off the same way in other missions.

 

Anyway thanks for the help guys, the issue seems to have sorted itself out.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Raven_Morpheus

[159th_Falcon]

Good to know the crisis is averted Morpheus.

And if you want to learn flying a specific aircraft whit a team, its always an idea to join an online squad you think you like.

 

Learning online whit other experienced pilots isn't only much more fun, it goes faster to.

 

(cough, see Signature cough cough.:D)

[esb77]

So having seen a lot of beginner question threads I've been looking at settings and flying some of the tutorial missions.

 

The birdstrike slider goes from 0% to 1000%. So if you have it set to the middle position, that's not 50% of what's normal it's 500%. It's like taking off near a lake on a major flyway during migration season.

 

Unless you really want birdstrikes, set it to 100% or less. If you insist on flying through flocks of invisible simulated birds, grab altitude as fast as you can. The risk of strikes declines sharply after a few thousand feet.

[jasonmvt]

im having the exact same engine blowout just before takeoff. its strange. no visible contact with anything on the track. and this happens before pulling back on the stick. blows one engine every time.

I can take off fine on any other free flight or mission or training mission with this never happening.

Edited February 23, 2014 by jasonmvt
add info from previous post