The Custard Pit :)

[Devon Custard]

Shapeoko2 from inventables. I have faith in the USPS..... not to trash my shipment :) Was looking at this for a while and when gadroc went and bought one i kinda took that as an endorsement.

 

And a LS3040 PRO from HPC here in good ol blighty.

 

I have a few friends who do hobby stuff and they've all agreed to chip in for some of the costs.

[MacFevre]

I just got their catalog yesterday. Will have to take a look today. It's really great that you have others that can chip in and use it together. I'd love to be able to do that. Unfortunately for me, I'm in NEW England. :D

[Jimbo]

Jealosometer is going off the scale ;)

 

I've been looking at CNC / Laser kit for a while now and I have to say, I'm amazed how cheap the Shapeoko2 is!, I hadn't heard of it before. I may have to take the wife out for a nice meal, put her In a good mood and see if I can get her to agree to some new toys!!

[JaseGill]

Great Work DC.

Sorry been away a while and work getting in the way of a life.

I'm not for from Marlow basically as you asked.

Loving the work so far and Jealousville with that CNC and Laser Engraver. I've been looking at them both for ages and trying to justify them to myself along the lines of "He who dies with the most Gadgets wins" ;).

Will be keeping an eye on this.

J.

[Devon Custard]

Great Work DC.

Sorry been away a while and work getting in the way of a life.

I'm not for from Marlow basically as you asked.

Loving the work so far and Jealousville with that CNC and Laser Engraver. I've been looking at them both for ages and trying to justify them to myself along the lines of "He who dies with the most Gadgets wins" ;).

Will be keeping an eye on this.

J.

 

TBH canceled the CNC ordered as they delayed the order by up to 6 weeks. I reckon the laser cutter/engraver will do most of what i need.

 

Marlow. Not far at all!

 

Just figured out how to light my master caution switch using my arduino solution so i think the UFC will be my first panel i try to complete. LED displays for the radio panels arrived today so ill be soldering the leads tonight.

[Devon Custard]

Right, if youve been following my arduino guide you'll know ive been working on the electronics to drive 7 segment displays.

 

Just managed to get my futaba 20x2 VFD working, which given the arcane mumbo jumbo they sent me im gobsmacked it was that easy. Actually running out of electronic gizmos i need to work on. Only think thats left to do is work on the gauges and thats a fabrication thing now.

 

So its on to panel making, laser has arrived, just need to set it up and do some design work. Then i can start posting some decent photos.

[Devon Custard]

Right, its actually time to start building panels. I think im going to wait a few months til things warm up before i get into constructing the frame.

 

Anyway I downloaded sketchup this evening and started working on the CMSP panel. Heres the results of a couple of hours flailing around trying to learn the interface.

 

 

Do we have any common reference for panel dimensions? Looking for each panel individually is going to be a MAJOR pain in the ass....

 

If not i guess ill start to gather them all up in a git repo for everyone to share.

[Duckling]

http://www.everyspec.com/MS-Specs/MS2/MS25000-MS25999/MS25212C_42008/ is a start. I used it as base for most of my panels outside dims and also to get near the dzuz placement. You find link to my stuff in my sig and check also ReactorOne's build thread. y2kiah posted several good pics of panels. More around here also. Deadmans trainer documentation will be a blockbuster when made. really looking forward to that.

Getting measurements to individual components within each quad can be a mess though using "low cost" switches etc, they're almost allways larger in size behind the panels then original MIL stuff. It's like a never ending 15-Piece game moving an adjusting drawings over and over again

[Devon Custard]

Well its been a fun weekend. Laser unpacked. Built a small reservoir for it out of a storage box n lid. Spent hours trying to get the damn thing to work and cursing liberally and finally managed to get it do its thang!

 

After cracking that, i went back and had another go at the futaba VFDs i bough and hey presto got those to work so no more worrying about buying OLEDs (you have no idea how annoyed i was that they wouldnt work....)

 

Then i got to play some more with sketchup and finally getting somewhere with an idea for how im going to build my panels.

 

piccies below, as i know threads get boring with something to look at....

 

First the beast as the pit wife calls it...

 

 

And i think you can tell by the time i got it working i was starting to feel a little ornery (gotta love that word)

 

 

The VFD finally working...

 

 

For some reason it would not work in 4 bit mode (except that very first attempt which i could not replicate), oh well another 4 wires isnt a great deal of pain.

 

And finally some screenies of my sketchup progress....

 

 

 

Aptly named this shot.. Ooops, put that component too near the edge i think.. better move it.

 

 

 

Finally the exploded view of the layers so far. Still needs a lot of editing. Still really impressed with sketchup and how easy it is to mock something up quickly. That representation of my VFD took about 3 mins to put together. What takes time is merging them all together but its great to see the parts and how they interact before you cut them.

 

Waiting on my delivery of acrylic this week. Cant wait. Did make one decision about pit. Whilst i want it to look as realistic as possible. Getting exact parts and perfect dimensions is silly, i could waste forever moving stuff around but millimeter accuracy on the placing of a label just doesnt seem worth it. I want to fly damnit! So function over form. And some stuff is just easier to do digital than analog...

[Deadman]

Getting exact parts and perfect dimensions is silly, i could waste forever moving stuff around but millimeter accuracy on the placing of a label just doesnt seem worth it. I want to fly damnit! So function over form. And some stuff is just easier to do digital than analog...

 

Devon Ii can understand the need to fly but are you saying that there is no need for any dimensions on the A-10 cockpit panels and parts? You make me feel like the past month and a half have been a waist of time.:cry:

Edited February 3, 2014 by Deadman

[Devon Custard]

Devon Ii can understand the need to fly but are you saying that there is no need for any dimensions on the A-10 cockpit panels and parts? You make me feel like the past month and a half have been a waist of time.:cry:

 

Nope, dimensions for me are pretty important, for the panel externals that is. What im not worrying about for example, is the placing of the holes for DZUS - or actually whatever im going to use instead of DZUS. Spending the time i did on the sketchup work with the CMSP panel and trying to find realistic measurements for just one panel taught me that im not that fussed if the part im going to use to replace the milspec one isnt the same size etc. As long as it does the job. For example when i went looking the two versions of the CMSP i found, reactorones and gadrocs, differed by 5mm in one dimension.

 

I was looking at the amount of DZUS fixings for the CMSP panel and 8 seemed a little overkill, this pit isnt actually going to fly and therefore isnt subject to the same vibration and gravity affects that a real pit would exert on its components. so in the interests of my sanity and time (and of course COST) im not replicating every single curve,hole,nut and bolt. Hence function over form. When i get to the end of my first build and i have the inclination i can work on more accurate details.

 

I know you are a details focused pit builder DM and i have the greatest respect for your work. I however am not so details driven and if it looks vaguely like a duck and quacks vaguely like a duck then damnit its a duck. And thats good enough for me.

 

As for the last month and a half most of that has been about proving i can do the electronics and mechanical stuff. So nothing wasted from my side.

 

I was looking at the amount of DZUS fixings for the CMSP panel and 8 seemed a little overkill, this pit isnt actually going to fly and therefore isnt subject to the same vibration and gravity affects that a real pit would exert on its components. so in the interests of my sanity and time (and of course COST) im not replicating every single curve,hole,nut and bolt. Hence function over form. When i get to the end of my first build and i have the inclination i can work on more accurate details.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Devon Custard

[Deadman]

Dzus placement is very easy it is usually 0.562 from the ends IE Top and bottom of the aluminum back plates as you look at it. All ways 0.192 in from each side this changes on the very small panel fillers. on the larger panels such as the CMSP you just add 4 more holes in on a multiplier of .375 so lets go with .75 in from the out side holes. and there ya go your spacing is complete .

If the dzus are not placed evenly and with in the correct spacing you will have several problems. Mostly the unevenness will catch your eye and just bug you the other problem is in the construction part.

 

Several existing simulator panel companies make black fake dzus cups that will fit sheet metal screws

 

You have all so run it to the biggest pain in the but going on with panel inconsistency in design.

The reference to the last month and a half is in reference to me using most of my spare time to draw parts up in scale. I hope these few measurements help you out.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Deadman

[Devon Custard]

I think maybe you're missing the emphasis of my post. What I was trying to say was that I don't feel the need to try and be picture perfect with my panel. I'm not going for 100% accuracy. The comment about dzus was that I don't want or need to make 8 dzus fittings for the cmsp panel so I'll just do 4 and that's half the cost. Plus it's also less holes to drill on whatever I use to replace the rails. given that this is a one off cockpit and I'm not planning on mass producing any of my work it's not a great problem how I do it.

 

I know you're trying to make a point about using the existing standards, that's cool. Appreciate the effort if you post the work. And trust me I'm not making it out as a pain in the arse just looking at ways of making it easier for me.

[Direwolf5]

Custard I have been collecting information for years, and working in SolidWorks to design my panels. There is a lot of good information available if you take the time to search for it. I design the panel and the populate it with generic hardware, then when I have bought a part I update it with a model of the new part.

 

Here are some renders of the CMSP I am working on, I plan to run it using Arduinos.

 

 

I am waiting on the display to arrive, then I will start cutting, and building.

 

Direwolf5

[Deadman]

I understood that your not concerned about making a replica.It did seam you were having a hard time with your dzus placement so I was just trying to help you out.Lol there is no mass market for anything A-10C it is all custom work Any way no problems. Good luck on your build.

 

DireWolf5 nice work I have all ways thought the EWMU panel looked better with the yellow jettison strips. Great attention to detail and I real like your display work around!

Edited February 3, 2014 by Deadman

[Intrepid1]

Wow that looks nice DireWolf5

you are quite talented with SolidWorks

If your final looks 1/2 as good as your renders your pit will be spectactular

Randy

[Devon Custard]

Thats one nice looking piece of design work!!!

 

 

Yes to the arduino, seems so obvious a fit considering its versatility and ease of use. And of course its relatively cheap tooo

[MacFevre]

I actually think you and DM are both right. And that's the beauty of forums like this. Devon if it's all for you and only for you, I agree. Make it any way you want. (Though I must say, it does seem a bit of a shame to put so much effort and detail and time and money into it, and not make it as close as possible. :) )

 

DM's vision, if I may be so bold as to speak speak for him, (and correct me if I'm wrong,) is to try and create a standard. This is twofold. One, so that you might find one person selling a panel, and another selling a frame, and the two would fit and look correct. The second is so everyone doesn't have to try and re-invent the wheel every time someone wants to make their own cockpit.

 

Now think of this Devon. (And this of course is pure conjecture and I'm totally pulling it out of my a$$, but this is how MY household would be ;) ) Six months down the line, Mrs. Pit wants to know why this fancy red laser machine of yours is gathering dust in the basement. So you decide to hang a shingle. It would be a lot easier if you already had the drawings in a standard that fits everyone's cockpit instead of asking each newcomer for theirs. Most of the time they will just jump on here and probably get ReactorOne's fantastic PDF for all the panels anyway.

 

But now DM comes along, and not only takes the time (aforementioned month-and-a-half) but follows the actual real components, then hey, what's not to like about that, right? But again, you do have every right to make it your own and from what I've seen so far, it's fantastic in it's own right. Now, a genius like yourself in the electronics and coding dept., along with the actual physicality of DM, well you two together could be a force to be reckoned with! ;)

 

And, of course, that's just me. And I could be totally wrong. But hey, either way it's still fun! :lol:

[Devon Custard]

Well Mac that would be easy. Id just add the extra 4 DZUS positions. All i was ever saying was that i didnt see the need to do 8 when 4 should do.

 

I totally get DMs point. The problem with all this lovely information is that its in so many different posts and some of its contradictory. Everyone has their favourite set and says to use that. And to be fair my first comment was about not worrying where a text label or component might sit.

 

ANYWAY. Lets put a pin in it :)

[Devon Custard]

Fabrication has started!

 

One burnt finger (hot glue gun - ouch!), one repaired laser cutter - nearly cried that it broke in the first week of use.

 

Anyway after much playing with settings im now getting reasonable cutting results and have started work on the CDU.

 

And yes i broke the top bit off, thank god for glue....

 

 

Painting next. Thanks to Mac i have a guide on airbrushing techniques...

[Devon Custard]

Now to look at Macs arduino sketch :)

[MacFevre]

:thumbup: Thanks DC! Nice lasering, too! (Yes, realizing that's not a real word.)

[Devon Custard]

No probs Mac, happy to assist. Did make me realise that i really dont want to use the EOS bus right now, and thats mainly because im probably late to the party and you cant expect Gadroc to continue supporting Helios forever. Ive got Brydlings 256 input board so i think ill just lua script it myself.

 

 

As for the panel, Im redoing it, and cutting the holes for the screws this time :doh:

 

Spacing of cutouts for the buttons i can be a little more precise with now that ive got the power of the cutting beam tuned. I was warping the acrylic and had to jiggle the spacing to avoid it.

 

I keep reminding myself that this is going to be what i call in my trade as "functionally equivalent" not a precise replica. I know too well what obsessing over details can lead to.

 

Im starting to realise that building the cockpit is actually more fun that flying it!

[MacFevre]

The AAP works great, though! I too have a Brydling (and a Bodnar,) but I also wanted to play around with making wholly independent panels so I didn't have to run lots of wires or make interfacing solutions. Helios is pretty sweet though as a full service type of DCS interface, as long as it's only the A-10 or the KA-50. Not sure on any other aircraft. Curious what you'll come up with for the, uh, community. :music_whistling:

 

I'm interested in knowing if Gadroc is still planning on inexpensive board solutions.

 

I was going to ask if you couldn't just drill screw holes, but if your correcting other matters ;)

 

I know exactly what you mean. I think I mentioned somewhere that I too was enjoying the build over flying. :D (But that's just because I keep telling myself that once I get it all built, well that's the time I'll really get into learning the ins and outs of the flying part.)

[Hansolo]

Ive got Brydlings 256 input board so i think ill just lua script it myself.

 

Devond Custard, if you want I got a combined joystick.lua file on my thread. I know that you do not need to manually change the joystick.lua for mapping the CDU but if you want to map toggle switches directly into the game then it is necessary. The combined joystick.lua is a mix of the two Brydling card and a Leo Bodnar card.

 

Cheers

Hans