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Everything posted by Thinder
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Current or upcoming best VR headset for DCS
Thinder replied to PKP_Cooler's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
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I'll do that, thanks!
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Two thing: I have tested back to back both setting paging files on a different drive and on the O.S drive and figured I got a faster PC with properly sized paging files space in the O.S drive. Pagefiles should be 4 X time the capacity of your RAM plus 1 MB for dump files. >>>>>> When it comes to RAM it's pretty simple but widely ignored by players. The frequency aren't decided by what you fit in your system but by your CPU controller limits, in your case DDR4-2133/2400, "buying faster RAM" will not help, what you need is a RAM with a chips die quality that will provide your CPU with a wider range of timing and there is only ONE die that do that, B.Die. In every case you will be limited to 3200MHz, 3600 if you're lucky, those kits are more expensive than your average high street kits but it's the price of quality, O.C capabilities and what they can do for your CPU: Remove the RAM/CPU bottleneck, allow it to run at 3200MHz minimum, which means that its controller will keep all channels open under load (bottleneck of standard RAM), and so everything will be faster under load, including your GPU. What to watch for: Number of ranks/banks per stick, maximum 1 X 4 or 2 X 2. Not purchasing two kits but one complete if you want 4 sticks, even from the same batch, they can cause blue screen and failure to boot, complete kits sticks are tested for compatibility. B.Die manufacturers: Corsair and GSkill. Cl 14, I recommend a 4 X 1 kit for interleaving which allows the controller to manage data between 4 different banks. B.die finder will let you know which kit to purchase, check motherboard compatibility but in general, the GSkill Trident Z should do the trick, it is used by Intel for their tests with an I9 9900K.
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Go ahead and sell your 4090...
Thinder replied to EightyDuce's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
Although they come a bit cheaper, that's valid for AMD GPUs as well, in fact it's the all darn system devices which prices will go through the roof, R&D cost is sky high now, they are engaged in a technology race, so someone has to pay for it. The only way to stop this is to massively do as what you and I plan; stick to a proven, stable technology generation for years until they reduce the cost of their gear and stop taking our gaming budgets for unlimited Santa's sack... Watch out for the search for a new die to support DDR5 with lower Cl, it's gonna be interesting... -
Well, I had enough problems trying to fly the F1 with the version of Steam VR I use to mistake the two issues. At some point even the module itself lost its authorization in the game, couldn't see it in the list of usable modules, wrote a ticket to support and reinstalled the game. I download Steam, Steam VR Beta and Virtual Desktop from the Steam website, don't have any link with the Steam version of DCS and use DCS Beta. btw, your opinions are always welcome, I still struggle to fully comprehend how all of this works (or not) together...
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I can tell you what I do to have it to work without crashing, I figured the order for opening apps matters: 1) You need Open XR Tool for windows open/minimized, when Steam VR starts, Open XR menu will give you the option to change Runtime, change then. 2) Launch Streaming assistant. 3) I use Steam VR Beta, I don't know if the standard version is as stable or more/less. 4) Launch Virtual desktop. At least I was able to use the headset and even fly the Mirage F1 both not supported or/and incompatible with Steam according to their tech support. When it comes to quality and FPS it's another matter altogether but at least you can run the game and try different settings, which is not happening if it crashes.
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Yeah, that's my conclusion as well, I'll turn all Steam VR controls off and see if it makes a difference, in any case Steam VR isn't officially supporting the Pico I'm happy I manage to get it to work at all.
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No, in any case I didn't notice too much difference, since I like to fly very low, AdlA F1CR fashion, I need to see where I'm going and what can be noticeable is the jerkiness of the close environment, I try to reduce that so that I can see clearly details 45° left/right. What bothers me most is the cycling of clarity from good to mediocre, never had that before...
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Update Pico4 user. So now I have managed to get the whole thing to work flying the Mirage 2000C and F1 for VR testings. Compared to the settings I did find before the DCS update, image quality suffers considerably, I experience a cyclic loss of clarity even with more moderate settings, mirror is unreadable with high level of pixelation and blur etc. Ticlkets were sent to Sapphire (for advise on settings) and Pico (suggesting software support). Steam VR is playing havoc as usual, if I want to watch a replay in 2D, it will start on its own, ask me to set up the room and shut down DCS if I close it, I have to uninstall it if I want to watch a replay, it will be all good the day I can get rid of it completely. In this screenshot I brake low for a spin at very low altitude where I can check visually the changes I made to my settings... The mirror remains unreadable (WTH???), level of detail cycles between good to foggy, same for details redraw, I took the pixel density levels from 1.6 to 1.2 and gained on the amount of jerkiness I experienced with environment at very low level (tree top level below hill top etc) but this is way off what I was able to achieve once but can't reproduce now, so I know my system can easily take it but something is making it impossible, I'm not sure which software limits my system potential to this level yet. AMD mentions Drivers issues... Working on it. First to reply; Pico, redirecting me to the right Dpt for technical inquiries.
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Varjo Aero - Upgrading VR or upgrade my PC?
Thinder replied to skiboss's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
From your PoV a Cl14 kit would allow you to run your RAM at 3200MHz for a start instead of DDR4-2933 and it will remove the RAM/CPU bottleneck, Intel CPUs make better use of faster RAM than Ryzen 3D and it's certainly the case for the Ryzen 4 as well, they have increased the size of the cache, it's for a good reason. This is an estimate of what your system is losing at 4K, when I say "gain" from better CPU/RAM bounding, in reality it is recovery of lost performances and apparently you're also putting more strain on your GPU with O.C for much lower results than it is potentially possible because your CPU limits its bandwidth under load. Intel logoCore i7-10700KFandNVIDIA logoGeForce RTX 3080 Ti Bottleneck Calculator. In my case, at 4K I gained more running Cl14 than the bottleneck created by the CPU, so it's all gain. I haven't been running Intel for ages so it is difficult for me to evaluate the precise gain you'll experience with a Cl14 kit but it is substantial in terms of both frequency and latency. I suggest you contact Intel tech support, give them a precise resume of your system stats and start by asking their opinion in the matter, their processor has specific characteristics and reacts to lower latency differently differently to a Ryzen, in your case it is meant to increase RAM frequency. Same for your motherboard, you need to know precisely which RAM it supports. I agree that those kits are more expensive than high street kits but they also resell very well for the same reason, should you need to recover some money for another RAM kit purchase in the future, I do that every single time, in the UK, we can use CEX, otherwise I'm sure you could ask for a good price selling through EBay. To purchase them, Newegg has always been a good place for me, G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR You won't need more than 32GB, but make sure you purchase them in ONE SINGLE kit, buying two different kits even from the same batch can cause issues such as blue screen, failure to boot etc. I don't know if your Motherboard and CPU would allow you to run the kit at 3600MHz but they overclock very well, they were designed for cases such as yours and AMD players using CPUs previous to Ryzen 3 for the same reason, controllers limit, their range of timing allows for increased frequencies impossible with non-B.die RAM. In your case I'd focus on this first then the GPU before thinking about going for DDR5, but that's my choice, the way I upgraded my AMD system for specific reasons, it might well be better for you to go straight to an Intel/DDR5 system, but as I mentioned, I don't think now is the right time to invest in a DDR5/AMD system, there aren't any RAM manufacturers with the die that would really benefit the Zen4 today. Don't forget your Power Supply Unit, those new tech are power hungry and the last thing you want is to have a system but not enough power to run it, it can cause real damages and cost a lot to replace, I got myself a brand new Corsair RM1000X through EBay and I can resell a750W and a 850W the same way, consider the second hand market as well. So I chose to optimize a Zen3/D system and wait for a new chips material, since you haven't got an AMD system you don't have to do it this way, but do your home work, contact motherboard and CPU manufacturers for details about support, the Intel article is also giving useful information. Intel: How to Overclock RAM. They used an I9 9900K for their test with the same RAM limits than your i7-10700KF: DDR4-2666. >>> In the case of the Pico4, the real issue here is software support, I once managed some settings that gave me both FPS and clarity of details I can't reproduce today, things have changed since the last DCS update and I'm sure Steam and Microsoft have also a part of responsibility in the matter, but I know that my system has the potential I need. Microsoft are trying to get their hands on everything they possibly can and it does affect supported software big time, and you never hear those who test the Pico4 on Youtube video tell you about their system levels of optimization, all they tell you is it demands more from your system not why nor how to reduce the requirements to get it to run smooth at higher settings. I know it is possible to get the Pico to run both smoothly and fast at high DCS settings, it's just a matter of time before the support for it is out there, for the time being, it's not the FPS my issue but the quality of the image I can get from different DCS settings and I'm working at it, mainly pixel density and details refresh, otherwise my headset is good. Anyway weight all of that out and fly like a Maineyak. -
Varjo Aero - Upgrading VR or upgrade my PC?
Thinder replied to skiboss's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
If you remove your CPU/RAM bottleneck, your GPU will also run faster under load, I have experienced that first hand, simply because it is not the GPU or the RAM that decides the bandwidth but the CPU controller, and the right RAM will allow any CPU to use the maximum bandwidth available. That's all very well, but again, it's not the GPU which will decide when to throttle down. You missed the point here. Ryzen 3 or 4 3D caches are designed for lower latency, the Zen 4 will have to run with Cl which are far from advantageous for Ryzen CPUs because the material which the DDR 5 RAM chips are made of is nowhere near the latency a Cl14 can offer to take full advantage of the cache, we're years away from that happening. It's not like I haven't done my home work on the subject before even bounding a GSkill kit to my 5600X back in January 2021, I followed the advises of AMD and GSkill technicians, not the forum noises and other legends about what RAM bounding can do, and it's pretty much the same for DDR5, when they say something, people should listen. Lower latency allows your CPU to work less for more data transfer because it takes less time to get it than from higher Cl RAM and that's why the cache benefits more from lower Cl. Now, I worked with CATIA and Fluent (now Simulia), that's REAL, Industrial fluid dymanics and no, it's not depending on cache or even less the amount or RAM you can allocate to it than multi-treading power and specialized GPUs, so Intel systems are better suited to the task here. For the students suite, Dassault-systeme recommend 2GB of RAM minimum but specify higher CPU frequency is better, the HP ZBook Fury G9 nVidia RTX A1000 is a workstations certified by Dassault Systeme. Specifications Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX (up to 4.8 GHz with Intel® Turbo Boost Technology, 25 MB L3 cache, 16 cores, 24 threads) 32 GB DDR5-4800 MHz RAM (1 x 32 GB). So until DDR5 come with lower Cl, it's always gonna be the case, now is not the right time to build an AMD/DDR5 system, AMD are well aware of the DDR5 issue and added a lot of features to Zen4 to increase frequency and compete with Intel, it still isn't a good situation in regard to Zen4 3D architecture and RAM latency. So you can of course contribute to the RAM manufacturer financing their R&D or wait until someone come up with a die that suits the Zen4 with lower latency than Cl32, DDR5 is far more suited for Intel CPUs because of the high frequencies, so if you absolutely want to use DDR5 then go for an Intel system. Your system is not optimized so you don't know its full potential yet, a DDR5 system will require a new motherboard, CPU, RAM kit and that's not going to be cheap, if you start by the RAM, you'll be able to keep your system running until DDR5 latency lowers, then go for the GPU, after that you can chose AMD or Intel and DDR5. My advise is based on experience, I gained 18.91% performance in Graphic score at 4K simply by combining a Cl14 RAM with a Ryzen 3D compared to a 5600X, not gonna happen with DDR5, that's why AMD is using higher CPU frequencies with the Zen 4 to compete with the Intel CPUs but you can bet your next X-Mass turkey that the Intel equivalent will always be faster. I know where to get genuine B.die RAM kits, I even might upgrade from 32GB to 64GB 3600MHz Cl14, that will only be my 3rd GSkill RAM kit since I started to use them. PS your GPU isn't fairing that bad compared to my RX 7900 XTX, start by optimizing it... 3080 Ti vs Radeon RX 7900 XTX -
Varjo Aero - Upgrading VR or upgrade my PC?
Thinder replied to skiboss's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
First I'd figure if you have bottlenecks (RAM/CPU most likely) and if it's the case, get rid of them. All (Intel/AMD) CPU controllers have limits that cause them to throttle down under load, I'm not so versed in Intel tech but I'm quite sure they can't manage more than 4 banks/ranks, so if you have 4 X 2 ranks/banks RAM kit, your CPU will throttle down under load anyway, the other thing with Intel is frequency, the higher, the better. Your CPU is very powerful but it can't manage fast RAM, being limited to DDR4-2933, one possibility if you're planning to compromise to get a better headset is to get a B.die kit, Cl-14, you would be able to run your RAM at least to 3200MHz, they are more expensive but worth the investment plus good value for resell. Intel: How to Overclock RAM. G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR Make sure your motherboard supports the RAM if you chose to go for one, better buy them full kit (X 4), not mixing up two different kits even from the same batch. If the GSkill isn't supported look for its Corsair equivalent. B-Die Finder Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more. In my humble opinion you already have a fast system (3.80 GHz/5.10 GHz, GTX3080) you just need to optimize it for VR and RAM is one issue you can easily sort out, last opinion before I leave you alone, once the B.die kit is fitted, forget about O.Cing the rest of your system, itself it will run at 3200MHz without O.Cing it and all channels will stay fully opened under load. VR Headset. Think Pico4 as an alternative. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/317396-looking-for-a-performance-estimate-for-a-new-computer-build/?do=findComment&comment=5135201 -
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Current or upcoming best VR headset for DCS
Thinder replied to PKP_Cooler's topic in PC Hardware and Related Software
It would help if you added your PC specs in your signature, headsets also have minimum required specs. I use a Pico4, it's not the best but it works well, 2K per eye, slightly less clear display than a G2 but the sweet spot is a lot larger, which comes very handy because you don't have to turn your head toward what you want to see with precision to put the sweet spot on it, you can just look at it without turning your head, clear enough to play PvP and see targets from far or cockpit eyes circuit. Plus: Refresh rate is 90 Hz. Can work with Wi-Fi or USB4. Not too heavy and well balanced, integrated sound but you can fit a quality headphone on top of it and turn its sound off. Has its own version of Virtual Desktop (14.99 GBP), you need an additional app with it easy to download but no Steam compatibility with it (VR Desktop Oculus Rift / Rift S, HTC Vive / Vive Pro / Vive Cosmos/ Valve Index, Windows Mixed Reality). Their tech support is reactive and willing, no such thing as "ask the other guy" and that goes from the headset to the cellphone software for purchasing games and apps to authorize payments (add payment method), it took them some time but they sorted it out after I called on them, so I was able to buy stuff from their library... I couldn't comment on the controllers simply because I haven't played any other game than DCS, and used them to navigate menus, all I can say is they work well. Cons: USB cable doesn't recharge the battery. Software support is limited, at the moment we're fiddling with apps to get it to work with Steam, I use Steam VR Beta and got it to work but it's still touch and go, see the topic on the subject. You need the dog's b@ll@cks to get the best of it, 3080 minimum, see my specs, with higher DCS settings I'm marginal although ONCE I managed to get exceptional image quality and smooth play but with settings I was never able to reproduce. So it's not only the PC, software plays a really important role. You can find them in the UK for £379 for the 128GB version and £449 for the 256GB, for connected VR, I don't think the capacity makes any difference. Ultimately I'm looking at the Pimax Crystal but they seems to take the mickey, I paid a pre-order and never eared of them since, I think there are delays in the launch for some reason, in any case, perhaps best wait for the price to come down or something better to come out, for the time being, I don't regret my choice and with the money saved, I treated my family with loads of chocolate for X-Mass. My tip: For tracking, playing in a dark room with a red lamp behind the screen works perfect, it provides the sensors with high contrast and I never had any tracking issues with it. -
Well, I managed a couple of test flights on the F1EE which is a progress, I can't say the same about the quality of the image and I still experience crashes, I'm trying to balance image quality and performance now without crashes (!?!)...
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True that, my case is one of the cheapest in the market, yet it serves me well, I have 5 fans mounted on it plus the CPU fan, the difference with a more expensive one is perhaps the quality of the filters (?) and ease of cabling, it could be better but for the price, I can't complain. I'd rather focus on the quality of the internals, PSU, fans, than spend twice more in a better looking case, you can find those for as low as £49.99 in EBay or £109.99 new at Overclocker. Here I just finished with cabling, there are two slim fans (Noctua 15mm) mounted in the lower position to give room to the GPU, one is linked to it and doesn't kick under low load, plus one blowing upward through the opening from the bottom of the case, just what I needed. In short, you need to prioritize, not spend the maximum in everything you buy...
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I still have error messages there (right pic), I can start the game, even a mission with the Mirage F1 but still experience crashes. Two things I noticed: It might well come from Windows 10 Pro Settings, Device manager detects the Pico4 but in devices it never shows connected, I thought it was perhaps because the connection depends on Streaming Assistant being started in Windows and in Pico menu, but even with it and Stream VR on, it doesn't refresh.
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So far I followed all the instructions downloaded everything but my Pico Streaming Assistant still won't start without Steam VR... Switched to Open Composite, DCS doesn't start in VR yet. Headset NOT detected but running with Streaming Assistant, now Windows doesn't detect it.
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That's one done...
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I agree with this but it's not other players the issue, it's my lack of education on the field, as I mentioned I'm a CG graphic technician (was), it took me 3 weeks to build an industry accurate aerodynamic model of the F-100 wing from zero knowledge of CATIA coming from 3D studio Max, but don't ask me to touch stuff in folders, I'm prone to errors and had to reinstall everything after restoring my O.S several times over. I don't know how many of us are capable of following the most advanced stuff here but it might cause similar issues to those I encountered, not because of the posters but not everyone is advanced enough to get it right. ps I wish I was better than this because as I mentioned previously, I managed to get the best VR settings I had ever but was unable to reproduce those settings and it worked only once. I have the replay, Mirage F1EE at Nellis take off, that's all but I have no clue how I made it happen, all I know is that it is possible to play the Pico and the F1 in VR and Steam VR Beta... I might try this...
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I understand zilch to all if this. I was able to find a terrific set up for Steam VR Beta and flew a mission with the Mirage F1 with my Pico4, both either incompatible or unsupported, which proves it is possible to achieve but sorry, I am not a programmer, if I'm able to use CATIA to model the F100 wing accurately using DRYDEN data for fluid simulation in Fluent, don't ask me to find a folder in DCS... So what I can't comprehend is why doesn't developers for DCS, headsets manufacturers and VR packages sort out their incompatibility issue, we should be able to install a complete package without having to fiddle with specific files (i'm down to my 6th restore and I'm lucky I didn't experience yet another Critical system Failure)... Seating it up and waiting but right now, I can't play DCS in VR.
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Has the Open Beta Just Switched to OpenComposite?
Thinder replied to Hempstead's topic in Virtual Reality
Just imagine getting a Pico 4 not supported by Steam to run with an incompatible module in DCS Beta and you'll have an idea of the state of confusion I'm in... There are solutions up there and I'm constantly looking for them, from my humble PoV, some apps are kinda mixing together to get the result I had, I'm thinking about the pico version of Virtual Desktop which kicks-in before I start that of Steam in the room and/or OpenXR which says it doesn't detect my Pico while Windows 10 Pro does. In short, when it comes to VR Apps, it's a magic roundabout and developers are just behaving like you said, unprofessionally. -
Has the Open Beta Just Switched to OpenComposite?
Thinder replied to Hempstead's topic in Virtual Reality
The F1 is not supported by Steam VR and from all the test I conducted with Steam VR Beta, this one is the best with no jerky head movements, clear vision of the environment at lower altitude higher level of details and clarity, in short, way better than the usual Steam VR performance. I'm starting to think that the other apps might have something to do with it, because normally I had a refresh rate 20Hz lower than that of what the Pico could take, no such problem here apparently, and I'm running DCS Beta. -
Has the Open Beta Just Switched to OpenComposite?
Thinder replied to Hempstead's topic in Virtual Reality
They will eventually sort it out but if you can't wait, try my Steam solution. Steam VR Beta. I'm editing the video of the last VR test on the Mirage F1EE. Normally I shouldn't be able to fly it because the F1s are not supposed to be supported by Steam but two things stroke me during this test flight: First, the quality of the image is better than what I had previously, although I realized my mirror reflection was off, no jerkiness, missed frame and a much higher level of details in the replay, the image on the Pico was also better, I'm still trying to figure out what I've done to get this to work this way. I'll post the HD upload as soon as it's done for you to see for yourselves, I know many of you guys don't have the dog's b@ll@cks for system but this solution is an alternative if it stays stable, until we can find better, for the Pico4 user it's a good one.